RE: CCIE Service Providerv3 - General Question

Right, there are obviously differences between the two OSes, both in hardware and software, but for any true CCIE this should not be an issue. The point of the CCIE is to obtain the level of expert in network engineering. As an expert you should have a deep theoretical knowledge of why and how different networking technologies work. OSPF is OSPF, BGP is BGP, whether it's on IOS, IOS XR, NX-OS, JunOS, etc.

What I'm saying is that if you're a CCIE in R&S - an *expert* in Routing & Switching technologies - and you need to start back at CCNA level for the Service Provider track, then you have failed. You've failed yourself as you've missed the entire point of CCIE to begin with.

Brian McGahan, CCIE #8593 (R&S/SP/Security)
bmcgahan_at_INE.com

Internetwork Expert, Inc.
http://www.INE.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Negron [mailto:negron.paul_at_gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2012 5:22 PM
To: Brian McGahan
Cc: Narbik Kocharians; Tom Kacprzynski; John Gitau; Cisco certification; Shaughn; Yuri Bank
Subject: Re: CCIE Service Providerv3 - General Question

My 2 cents,

I agree that the learning curve of basic commands from IOS to IOS-XR is easy enough but the sub options carry some hefty differences. I can show you some flags in Multicast that might make you scratch your head a few times.

The line cards are truly distributed and much different output is available then anything else for IOS that can help aid in troubleshooting.

I would agree that your workbook assumes that you would be at an Advanced CCIE R& S level. Narbik and I do not take that approach. I guess that is a difference of opinion. (Agree to disagree).

If you have little experience with IOS-XR, I can see how you would say the differences are Very Minor.
I've been messing around with it for 6 years and STILL sift through some cool stuff that can be very helpful.

Paul

Paul Negron
CCIE# 14856
negron.paul_at_gmail.com

On Oct 26, 2012, at 4:19 PM, Brian McGahan <bmcgahan_at_ine.com> wrote:

> No offense Narbik, but I don't necessarily agree with this statement. If you're already at the CCIE R&S level then going back to CCNA SP is going to be a waste of time in my opinion. Passing CCIE R&S today already assumes that you already have an expert level understanding of layer 2 technologies, IPv4, IPv6, IGP, BGP, and Intra-AS MPLS L3VPN.
>
> CCIE SP is not a large stretch beyond this. It's essentially an MPLS + BGP exam. If you *really* understand the core of MPLS already, then you just need to know how Inter-AS L3VPN works, L2VPN (which is very simple), and some enhanced services like Multicast over L3VPN, and of course IOS XR syntax.
>
> Tom, as to what you previously said:
>
> "I'm thinking that learning the theory and implementing it on IOS would take significant time. Then applying that same knowledge to XR might not be as hard. I'm not sure if that makes much sense without knowing XR that much, but I would think that most of the features are similar with some new additional ones first implemented on the XR line. Anyone agree or disagree?"
>
> This is 100% correct. If you understand first how all the technologies work on IOS, there is very little involved in porting this to XR. Of course there is a learning curve with the syntax, but beyond this the *vast* majority of features work exactly the same. After all, networking is highly based on open standards protocols, e.g. OSPF, IS-IS, BGP, LDP, etc., so as long as you understand the *why* behind them then it's very simple to understand the *how* on IOS XR. Of course there are caveats on XR, but are by far the minority.
>
> As for the INE workbooks and videos (I can't speak for anyone else's), we already assume that you're at CCIE R&S level. This means we assume you are an *expert* at IGP and BGP. If you're not, then you're wasting your time trying to work on the SP technologies, because all their fundamental basis is coming from enterprise routing & switching.
>
> As mentioned before in the thread, MPLS Enabled Applications should be seen as required reading for this track. Beyond this I would mainly focus on the documentation. This of course assumes you are already at CCIE R&S level for the other topics.
>
> We've had an extensive number of candidates that were already CCIE R&S, used INE's SPv3 ATC videos and the SPv3 workbook and then passed the exam. Let me know if you have more specific questions about it.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Brian McGahan, CCIE #8593 (R&S/SP/Security) bmcgahan_at_INE.com
>
> Internetwork Expert, Inc.
> http://www.INE.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody_at_groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com] On Behalf
> Of Narbik Kocharians
> Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2012 12:08 PM
> To: Tom Kacprzynski
> Cc: John Gitau; Cisco certification; Shaughn; Yuri Bank
> Subject: Re: CCIE Service Providerv3 - General Question
>
> To All,
>
> The best way to approach this is to go through the SP-CCNA/SP-CCNP classes/materials, recently the old MPLS was removed and it was replaced with the new SP CCNA and CCNP, which i think was the BEST move Cisco has ever made for SP certs.
>
> You can start with SPNGN1 and then SPNGN2 for your CCNA end then for SP-CCNP you need 4 courses: SPRoute, SPAdvRoute, SPCore, SPEdge.
>
> One of the best curriculums
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 5:53 PM, Tom Kacprzynski <tom.kac_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Whether Cisco is big in DWDM space or not is one conversation to
>> have, but could you guys share with me what type of materials you
>> used to study topics like DWDM, ATM or SONET for the CCIE SP written
>> test? I know that these topics can be very deep in the amount of complexity and information.
>>
>> Thanks everyone,
>>
>> Tom
>>
>> **
>> On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 6:05 AM, John Gitau <jgitau_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> most of our clients run Cisco dwdm/optical gear
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>> On 25 Oct 2012, at 11:11, Shaughn <maniac.smg_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Cisco are big in the DWDM/Optical space. I have worked with very
>>>> large
>>> ISP's running Cisco in that layer of the network.
>>>>
>>>> CCIE # 23962 (SP)
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On 25 Oct 2012, at 9:54 AM, Yuri Bank <yuribank_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Everyone says that Cisco will eventually release some kind of
>>>>> virtualized platform for IOS-XR, but I don't see it happening.
>>>>> Hell, even the versions of L3/L2IOU that are floating around were
>>>>> *not* officially released by Cisco. I think if anything, they will
>>>>> go towards a hosted solution, similar to Junosphere, which kind of
>>>>> sucks because I really like having my own lab to tinker with.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dynamips running c7200s can do a lot of the technologies, so using
>>>>> it learn the theory and fundamental configurations makes a lot of sense.
>>>>> I think this is what most people are doing.
>>>>>
>>>>> I didn't think Cisco was big in the DWDM/SONET market (I've seen
>>>>> ISPs running Fujitsu, Infinera, and Alcalu for optical transport
>>>>> but never Cisco). I think the material on that subject would be
>>>>> minimal. All very much theory based.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Yuri
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 8:27 AM, Tom Kacprzynski
>>>>> <tom.kac_at_gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi Yuri,
>>>>>> Good to hear from you. Looking over the written and lab
>>>>>> requirements,
>>> there
>>>>>> seems to be some differences. Written seems to have a lot more of
>>> things
>>>>>> like SONET, DWDM, ATM along with the MPLS and IGP. What have you
>>>>>> used
>>> for
>>>>>> these topics (SONET, DWDM, ATM)? The IS-IS books looks good, will
>> have
>>> to
>>>>>> check it out. I just got the MPLS book and started reading
>>>>>> "Traffic Engineering with MPLS" by Eric Osborne.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm thinking that learning the theory and implementing it on IOS
>> would
>>> take
>>>>>> significant time. Then applying that same knowledge to XR might
>>>>>> not
>> be
>>> as
>>>>>> hard. I'm not sure if that makes much sense without knowing XR
>>>>>> that
>>> much,
>>>>>> but I would think that most of the features are similar with some
>>>>>> new additional ones first implemented on the XR line.
>>>>>> Anyone agree or
>>> disagree?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How are the rumors of virtualized XR platform? Any development there?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tom Kacprzynski
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 11:38 PM, Yuri Bank <yuribank_at_gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hey Tom,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've glanced over some of INE's material, and it looks pretty good.
>>>>>>> However, workbooks are not the real concern, it's the lab equipment!
>>>>>>> Anyways, I think studying for the CCIE-SP is no different from
>>>>>>> the R&S. *Start with the theory* At least that is what I've been
>>>>>>> doing. I just finished reading
>> 'OSPF:
>>>>>>> Anatomy of an Internet Routing Protocol' and 'MPLS Enabled
>>>>>>> Applications'.
>>>>>>> 'The Complete IS-IS Routing Protocol' Is next on my list.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Yuri
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 6:31 PM, HEMANTH RAJ
>>>>>>> <hemanthrj_at_gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi Tom
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I was also with the same confusion as like you after finishing
>>>>>>>> my
>>> R&S.
>>>>>>>> But
>>>>>>>> now after purchasing Narbik Workbooks and INE materials for
>>>>>>>> CCIE
>>> SPV3. I
>>>>>>>> felt they have covered the blueprint extensively. So i would
>>> recommend
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> go for Narbik and INE WB if you want to pursue your SPV3.
>>>>>>>> I am doing the same right now.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 9:22 PM, Tom Kacprzynski <
>> tom.kac_at_gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>>>> Now that I'm done with CCIE R&S, there is a void in my
>>>>>>>>> evenings,
>> no
>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>> date-nights with R1 and SW2 (oh memories) or practice labs.
>>>>>>>>> So I
>> was
>>>>>>>>> thinking of looking at the CCIE Service Provider. I wanted to
>>>>>>>>> get
>>> some
>>>>>>>>> feedback from people that did their RS and moved on to the
>>>>>>>>> Service Provider track. From my initial research I'm noticing
>>>>>>>>> that workbooks don't
>>> seem
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> be comprehensive as with RS, by that I mean not all topics are
>>> covered
>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>> them (I could be wrong). Is that partly due to the hardware
>>>>>>>>> requirements?
>>>>>>>>> What sort of major difference did you noticed studying SPv3 vs
>>>>>>>>> RS
>> in
>>>>>>>>> terms
>>>>>>>>> of materials and preparation?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Tom Kacprzynski
>>>>>>>>> CCIE#36159
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>> ____________________________________________________________________
>>> ___
>>>>>>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Problems arise because we talk,problems are not solved because
>>>>>>>> we
>>> don't
>>>>>>>> talk So good or bad talk to your affectionate one's freely.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yours Friendly,
>>>>>>>> H P HEMANTH RAJ
>>>>>>>> CCIE#28593 (R&S)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>> ____________________________________________________________________
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>>>>>
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>>>>>
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>
>
> --
> *Narbik Kocharians
> *CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
> *www.MicronicsTraining.com* <http://www.micronicstraining.com/>
> Sr. Technical Instructor
> YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
> A Cisco Learning Partner
>
>
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Received on Fri Oct 26 2012 - 18:29:07 ART