Re: Groupbuy for passccielab in India

Well, it is not as easy to build "a diversity of labs" with short
resources at hand. Most of the times program managers are working on
building the labs themselves, picking tasks from SMEs here and there and
compiling the lab overlay.

Another point is what can Cisco actually incriminate to those off-shore
companies? Should those companies to choose to remove the word "real
labs" from their adds, it is just a study content and with finite amount
of knowledge included, it would be quite finite number of tasks you can
think of wording for the lab. My workbooks are very close to what you
have on your tests, so what? "/I am/ but a young /girl/ and know little
of the /ways of war/." :-) But I think it is VERY hard to fight those
off-shore companies as efficiently as one could hope to.

So Cisco should probably change the whole approach to the expert-level
test and make it more academic, more analytical, less
configuration-oriented.... just a thought.

A.

On 7/12/2012 12:18 AM, Imran Ali wrote:
> No need to hire a team to start monitoring the process.
> Cant they write more than few labs so that it becomes impossible to
> remember ?
> cant they (program managers) write atleast 5 labs per location ? and
> then starts mixing them every two weeks ? which "cheeting " company
> can afford to send their candidates to learn the senario in every
> location ?
> can they (cheeters) reproduce labs which such a diversity ? is it
> that much difficult to write down " straight forward " lab free of "
> wording uncertinity / ambiguity " ?
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 3:07 AM, Alexei Monastyrnyi
> <alexeim73_at_gmail.com <mailto:alexeim73_at_gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> As far as CCIE program managers per track go, they are fully aware
> of cheating problem. My understanding that they re quite limited
> in resources, 1-2 persons per track. In large organizations like
> Cisco it is hard to get the wheels spinning in right direction if
> you are pushing a cart on your own.
>
> Certification is a good side business for Cisco, but it is not a
> core business.
>
> A.
>
>
> On 7/7/2012 4:10 PM, Muhammad Nasim wrote:
>> OK OK guys,
>>
>> Instead of Bashing Cisco Systems we are going here and their.
>>
>> My only point is that, we all know how big Cisco is and I am sure if and
>> only if Cisco take it seriously they can easily kill this cheating issue.
>>
>> BTW, Anyone get a chance to openly discuss this is Cisco Live and any other
>> Cisco Educational Event.
>>
>> Peace to All
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 4:04 PM, Ovais Iqbal<ovais.iqball_at_yahoo.com> <mailto:ovais.iqball_at_yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Imran,
>>>
>>> I am sure you are right about narbik since i have heard alot of
>>> good things about him. I was just giving my point of view that dumps are
>>> available to everyone. And no one is in the position to tell that who used
>>> it
>>> and who didnt.
>>>
>>>
>>> @Narbik, dont be angry, i was'nt claiming that you cheated.
>>> This would be very impolite and disrespectful. But if you did take it
>>> offensive then my sincere apologies. I hope no hard feelings
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Imran Ali<immrccie_at_gmail.com> <mailto:immrccie_at_gmail.com>
>>> To:
>>> Narbik Kocharians<narbikk_at_gmail.com> <mailto:narbikk_at_gmail.com>
>>> Cc: Ovais Iqbal
>>> <ovais.iqball_at_yahoo.com> <mailto:ovais.iqball_at_yahoo.com>; Dale Shaw<dale.shaw_at_gmail.com> <mailto:dale.shaw_at_gmail.com>; Marko
>>> Milivojevic
>>> <markom_at_ipexpert.com> <mailto:markom_at_ipexpert.com>;"ccielab_at_groupstudy.com" <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com> <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com> <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 4, 2012 11:58 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Groupbuy for passccielab
>>> in India
>>>
>>> Iqbal,
>>>
>>> you can doubt that most of narbik students cheeted all the
>>> way up to ccie ,
>>> but not narbik itself , i can tell this because he work
>>> reflect through
>>> knowledge in RnS areana .
>>> On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 9:26 PM,
>>> Narbik Kocharians<narbikk_at_gmail.com> <mailto:narbikk_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Iqbal,
>>>>
>>>> *Sir everything is
>>> ambiguous and blurred now-a-days. Any one who passes the
>>>> lab, cant prove
>>> that they didnt use the real labs. Not even you *
>>>> When i took the lab, we
>>> did not have real labs or any other crap like that,
>>>> so please do not EVEN
>>> mention that, not even as an example, NEVER. You do
>>>> not know me well enough.
>>>>
>>>> Have a good day sir.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 11:12 AM, Ovais Iqbal
>>> <ovais.iqball_at_yahoo.com> <mailto:ovais.iqball_at_yahoo.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Dear Narbik,
>>>>>
>>>>> Dont take it
>>> offensive but were you there with your students 24/7 in
>>>> their
>>>>> lives ? i
>>> mean how can you be so sure that they didnt use any of the real
>>>>> labs out
>>> there ? just because they are hardworking and they performed
>>>> well
>>>>> in
>>> your bootcamp/mock labs still leaves the fear that what if we fail the
>>>>> lab
>>> ? I am not saying your students (the one you mentioned) cheated but
>>>>> sorry
>>> there is no way they can ever prove they didnt. Period.
>>>>> Now, as you
>>> mentioned that they will surely be spotted in interview or
>>>>> during their
>>> job tasks ? Sorry but you are wrong here too. I know 3
>>>>> engineers (my
>>> fellow country man) whose resumes are by far most
>>>> impressive
>>>>> then many
>>> so called GENUINE CCIEs, and they know their stuff. One of the
>>>>> DUMPER (one
>>> of these 3 guys) were interviewed by a pannel of 7 ppl (with
>>>>> couple ccie's
>>> among them) and he got selected. But he was a dumper !! so
>>>>> where does your
>>> theory goes now that he wont perform in the real life ?
>>>> and
>>>>> he was also
>>> your student, cant take his name for obvious reasons now.
>>>>> Sir
>>> everything is ambiguous and blurred now-a-days. Any one who passes
>>>> the
>>> lab, cant prove that they didnt use the real labs. Not even you :-)
>>> Guys, this discussion has been raised so many times and everyone start
>>> jumping in, claiming (indirectly almost) that they or their students
>>>> never
>>>>
>>>> cheated or they dont even know that real labs exist.
>>>>> No offense to
>>> anyone :-)
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>> *From:* Narbik
>>> Kocharians<narbikk_at_gmail.com> <mailto:narbikk_at_gmail.com>
>>>>> *To:* Dale Shaw<dale.shaw_at_gmail.com> <mailto:dale.shaw_at_gmail.com>
>>>>>
>>> *Cc:* Marko Milivojevic<markom_at_ipexpert.com> <mailto:markom_at_ipexpert.com>;"ccielab_at_groupstudy.com" <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
>>>> <
>>>>
>>>> ccielab_at_groupstudy.com <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>>
>>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 4, 2012 8:42 AM
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: Groupbuy for passccielab in India
>>>>> One of my students
>>> proved to me that this guy is from India and he did
>>>>> cheat in his written
>>> exam, apparently he proudly mentioned it in one of
>>>> his
>>>>> posts in this
>>> particular forum.
>>>>> That is bad, this can make anyone angry. But please
>>> don't be
>>>> disappointed,
>>>>> there are cheaters every where, but these guys do
>>> not last long, because
>>>>> sooner or later they have to find a job and they
>>> will not be able to
>>>>> perform at a CCIE level.
>>>>>
>>>>> Two of my students
>>> passed recently without cheating at all:
>>>>> *Kevin Huff #**35841*
>>>>> *Amrik
>>> Singh #35824*".
>>>>> These guys worked very hard, if you work hard you
>>> will succeed, you don't
>>>>> need to cheat at all.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Jul 3, 2012
>>> at 8:17 PM, Narbik Kocharians<narbikk_at_gmail.com> <mailto:narbikk_at_gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> How do
>>> you know that this guy is from India, China or Russia?
>>> On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 7:50 PM, Dale Shaw<dale.shaw_at_gmail.com> <mailto:dale.shaw_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi Narbik,
>>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 10:56 AM, Narbik
>>> Kocharians <narbikk_at_gmail.com <mailto:narbikk_at_gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Marko,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Don't be tired of hearing the truth, first of all how do you know
>>> where
>>>>>>>> they are coming from?
>>>>>>> Surely you're not
>>> suggesting that there is no pattern in the origin of
>>>>>>> the names of
>>> people posting questions relating to dodgy CCIE
>>>>>>> preparation material.
>>> Surely.
>>>>>>>> To name three countries with such conviction, means
>>>>>>> that you know for sure. Remember that you need to be 100 percent
>>> sure,
>>>>>>>> besides, how do you know where they are being sold? Just
>>> because the
>>>>>>> guys
>>>>>>>> name is Vikas it does not mean that it's
>>> being sold in India, the
>>>>> person
>>>>>>>> might be Indian but he could be
>>> selling them from another country.
>>>>>>> Maybe, but how long do you
>>> think the crooks would stay in business if
>>>>>>> there is no demand? Kill the
>>> demand in their biggest markets and you
>>>>>>> destroy the viability of their
>>> business.
>>>>>>>> How do you differentiate an Indian name from a
>>> Pakistani name?
>>>>>>> Would you be happier with "Indian subcontinent"?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>> Dale
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>> *Narbik Kocharians
>>>>>> *CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
>>>>>>
>>> *www.MicronicsTraining.com <http://www.MicronicsTraining.com>*<http://www.micronicstraining.com/> <http://www.micronicstraining.com/>
>>>>>> Sr.
>>> Technical Instructor
>>>>>> YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
>>>>>> A Cisco
>>> Learning Partner
>>>>> --
>>>>> *Narbik Kocharians
>>>>>
>>> *CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
>>>>> *www.MicronicsTraining.com <http://www.MicronicsTraining.com>*
>>> <http://www.micronicstraining.com/> <http://www.micronicstraining.com/>
>>>>> Sr. Technical Instructor
>>>>> YES!
>>> We take Cisco Learning Credits!
>>>>> A Cisco Learning Partner
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Blogs
>>> and organic groups athttp://www.ccie.net
>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> *Narbik Kocharians
>>>> *CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP,
>>> Security)
>>>> *www.MicronicsTraining.com <http://www.MicronicsTraining.com>*<http://www.micronicstraining.com/> <http://www.micronicstraining.com/>
>>>>
>>> Sr. Technical Instructor
>>>> YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
>>>> A Cisco
>>> Learning Partner
>>>> Blogs and organic groups athttp://www.ccie.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>> Subscription information may be found at:
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>>>
>>>
>>> Blogs and organic groups at
>>> http://www.ccie.net
>>> _______________________________________________________________________
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>>>
>>>
>>> Blogs and organic groups athttp://www.ccie.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________________________________
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Received on Sat Jul 14 2012 - 21:52:20 ART