Re: OT: is this true? I am worried about studying for CCIE R&S

Good point.

My $.02. If you are studying CCIE because it is some magical certificate
that will always guarantee that you make lots money then you will likely be
disappointed. This is a dynamic field, and if you choose it you are
choosing a life of education. In fact that anti boredom factor is one of
the main things that drew me into it.

Regardless of what the next big technology is tomorrow that doesn't change
the fact that it is based on what exists today, and having a strong
understanding of core networking WILL be a valuable tool. Ask the old
timers if they regret knowing token ring, and you will find that it gave
them a base and they built from there.

On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 1:28 PM, Don Rajaratne <don.rajaratne_at_gmail.com>wrote:

> Eventually Cisco or Microsoft will buy that company, and will add to their
> exam cycle. :)
>
> On Sun, Jun 3, 2012 at 4:53 PM, MSDP multicast <multicast100_at_gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> > I appreciate everyone's comments here.
> >
> > Thanks Mark for clearing this up for me.
> > I am going to pause my CCIE journey for a while , at least for the next 6
> > months and then will see where the crowd is going.
> >
> > I guess, Mark's view is pretty much what we're seeing.
> >
> >
> > On Mon, May 28, 2012 at 7:32 AM, Mark Snow <msnow_at_ine.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Yeah, I love GoT. Epic series
> > >
> > > And while I've been called all sorts of names, I do know and still talk
> > to
> > > my father.
> > > Hahaha :)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Kind Regards,
> > >
> > > Mark Snow, CCIE #14073
> > > (Voice, Security)
> > > Instructor
> > > Internetwork Expert, Inc.
> > > INE.com
> > >
> > > - docendo discitur
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On May 27, 2012, at 13:34, "marco207p_at_gmail.com" <marco207p_at_gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Mark Snow... Ever watch game of thrones?... Anywho, I work for a very
> > > large ISP and we don't even have physical phones that work on your desk
> > > without your laptop plugged in..
> > > >
> > > > As time goes by, the industry will adapt to every piece of technology
> > > based on demand. If its not STP getting tackled, and replaced with
> > TRILL,
> > > or traditional IO running on software/hardware being replaced by
> Virtual
> > > instances then it will be something else. I keep an open mind and say
> if
> > > someone developed the technology " learn it" you never know when you
> > might
> > > be able to use that technology in the future.
> > > >
> > > > Low latency, is the world today... If I can send a packet from London
> > to
> > > NY or Chgo in 69ms we are getting closer, but we still have physics to
> > deal
> > > with. Jm2c...
> > > >
> > > > Joe Sanchez
> > > > Sent from my iPad
> > > >
> > > > On May 27, 2012, at 7:25 AM, Mark Snow <msnow_at_ine.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Thought I'd chime in here, not to takes sides or say anyone is
> > > particularly right or wrong - but to maybe offer a bit of perspective.
> > > >>
> > > >> I teach UC. Have since 2003 and taught the CCIE Voice exam since
> early
> > > 2005. I've used an IP phone maybe all of 6 months aggregate during the
> > last
> > > 7 years. And sure, I travel a lot, but I've also sat in a
> cubicle/office
> > a
> > > lot during that time, too. I don't have a home phone and I don't pickup
> > too
> > > many things to communicate that cannot be quickly and easily
> transported
> > > with me anywhere and everywhere I go.
> > > >>
> > > >> Cisco knows this all too well. You probably won't find too many
> > > published whitepapers from them on the topic - but even they have been
> > > predicting the demise of the handset for many years now as well. Not
> the
> > > demise of the UCM, but the traditional handset is going the way of the
> > > elevator operator. Not today, or tomorrow, but in 10 years the
> landscape
> > > will be a very different one. The fact that it's not called
> "CallManager"
> > > anymore wasn't just incidental or a marketing push - rather a very
> > > strategic one. Cisco knows that the industry is very much demanding to
> > > communicate 'with anyone, from anything, and from anywhere'. Not just
> > from
> > > IP Phones and Cisco Cius tablets (may they rest in peace). It is very
> > much
> > > the impetus behind the BYOD initiative. So the focus isn't nearly as
> much
> > > on handsets as it is on true unified communications and all that goes
> > with
> > > that (presence, video, soft clients in all forms, SDK integration from
> > > every platform - twitter, FB, email, IM, RSS, etc). But!
> > > >> while I should be able to communicate with anyone from anywhere- if
> it
> > > is business related, they should be able to account for that centrally,
> > and
> > > in many countries and industries - regulate for that centrally as well.
> > > >>
> > > >> While the certifications take a while to update (and we're all
> hoping
> > > for an update to the CCIE Voice being announced here in a few weeks at
> > CLUS
> > > to reflect the current marketplace), they are still very relevant. SIP
> > > isn't going anywhere. In fact it's future is brighter than ever. It
> just
> > > won't be a desk phone that triggers that call in 2020. So be it. People
> > > will still communicate, and a certification in UC will still be very
> > > valuable.
> > > >>
> > > >> I do also tend to think that what others have said that the network
> > > (and UC) engineer of the future will also have experience with app-dev
> > > skills, are dead on in their analysis (again- net engineer of the
> > future).
> > > I see this more and more in the industry, especially in UC. If you
> can't
> > > program some basic scripting languages such as Perl/Python, PHP, Lua,
> > > TCL/Tk/Expect, (at the very least RegEx and SED or equivalent), then I
> > > would highly recommend some beginning courses (see w3schools.org or
> > > lynda.com). You may or may not need them today. But IMHO you will need
> > > them or at least the same foundational programming/scripting knowledge
> > over
> > > the next 10 years or longer. I realize that not everyone will (or has)
> > > agree(d) with this over the course of this thread. That being said, ask
> > > yourself (be honest with your answer to yourself - not the group) how
> > many
> > > quick little problems you ma have been able to solve over your career
> > with
> > > a simple small script.
> > > >>
> > > >> Again, this thread started out and largely is still talking about
> the
> > > role of the future engineer, not necessarily the exact current
> situation.
> > > Also keep in mind when contemplating people's opinions stated here or
> > > responding to anyone, that people are here from all over the world and
> > > offer a truly global perspective- and consider that the situation where
> > you
> > > work (your specific company the country you work in) may be quite
> > different.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> /offsoapbox
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Kind Regards,
> > > >>
> > > >> Mark Snow, CCIE #14073
> > > >> (Voice, Security)
> > > >> Instructor
> > > >> INE.com
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> On May 26, 2012, at 16:11, Lindsay Hill <lindsay.k.hill_at_gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> "You don't give cells phone to your cube workers"
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Actually, I see this all the time. My current role is in
> consulting,
> > > and I see
> > > >>> a lot of different businesses. Specific functions such as call
> > centres
> > > may not
> > > >>> be issued mobiles, but every other person within those businesses
> > has a
> > > >>> mobile. Even though most staff sit in the same place every day,
> they
> > > use
> > > >>> mobile phones. Standard calling plans offer free calling within a
> > > business
> > > >>> group, or maybe effectively unlimited calling, so why bother with a
> > > desk
> > > >>> phone?
> > > >>>
> > > >>> As for signal issues - are you based in the States? The USA has a
> > very
> > > >>> different telco industry, for various historical reasons. What goes
> > on
> > > there
> > > >>> does not really reflect the rest of the world at all. This is part
> of
> > > what
> > > >>> Greg is getting at. You're right that Greg has his own agenda - but
> > > then we
> > > >>> all do.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> On 26/05/2012, at 11:10 PM, Dark Fiber <darkfiber08_at_gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> Cell is only viable for mobile workers. You don't give cells phone
> > to
> > > your
> > > >>> cube workers... That article was so off base and bias. Then you
> have
> > > signal
> > > >>> issues which no one ever thinks about. My cell barely works at my
> > desk.
> > > >>> Ethereal has an agenda and always writes to that agenda.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> On Saturday, May 26, 2012, Mohammed Naviwala wrote:
> > > >>>> hi
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> That article was written 2 years back and we still dont see that
> > > happening.
> > > >>> keep studying guys.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Regards
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> On Sat, May 26, 2012 at 5:37 AM, Lindsay Hill <
> > > lindsay.k.hill_at_gmail.com>
> > > >>> wrote:
> > > >>>> For many people, mobiles already have replaced VoIP systems.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> I do not have a desk phone now, nor do I expect to ever have one
> > > during the
> > > >>>> rest of my career. If I ever do get issued one once again, I will
> > > find it
> > > >>>> somewhat quaint, and it will probably just sit on my desk
> gathering
> > > dust,
> > > >>>> probably not even plugged in.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> There are some parts of the world where, for economic or cultural
> > > reasons,
> > > >>>> deskphones will hang on, but there are also large parts of the
> world
> > > where
> > > >>> the
> > > >>>> economics don't stack up.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> See this:
> > http://etherealmind.com/ip-telephony-over-no-cisco-voice/for
> > > >>> some
> > > >>>> more on it. For those who say "But there's plenty of demand here
> for
> > > Voice
> > > >>>> engineers!" - check the comments too. Certain places will retain
> > > demand,
> > > >>> but
> > > >>>> the long term outlook for it is not great.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Back to the R&S angle, I think the point is that you need to be
> > aware
> > > of
> > > >>>> industry trends. No, OpenFlow won't change everything overnight.
> But
> > > the
> > > >>> point
> > > >>>> is, networking will probably change dramatically over the next 10
> > > years,
> > > >>> and
> > > >>>> if you plan on staying in this industry for another 20-30 years,
> you
> > > need
> > > >>> to
> > > >>>> stay on top of those changes. In many ways networking was pretty
> > > static for
> > > >>>> the last decade, but now there's a whole heap of pressures forcing
> > > change.
> > > >>> You
> > > >>>> need to both look at the long term direction of your career - e.g.
> > do
> > > I
> > > >>> study
> > > >>>> CCIE R&S, or move towards application development - and the
> > > short-medium
> > > >>> term,
> > > >>>> where you read enormous amounts, and stay on top of changes, so
> you
> > > don't
> > > >>> want
> > > >>>> to get left behind.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Sometimes I meet engineers who have gotten painted into a corner,
> > > where
> > > >>> they
> > > >>>> know something really well, but they've gotten stuck, and the pool
> > of
> > > >>>> potential employers is rapidly shrinking. OK, maybe they've got a
> > > good job
> > > >>>> now, but what happens if they have a falling-out with their
> > employer?
> > > Not
> > > >>> many
> > > >>>> options.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Times change. But good engineers will adapt with those changes.
> > Find a
> > > >>> field
> > > >>>> that interests you, learn all you can, but keep your eyes open to
> > > change.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> - Lindsay
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> On 26/05/2012, at 4:49 AM, Dark Fiber wrote:
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> Remember when cell's phones were going to take the place of voip
> > > >>>>> systems?
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > _______________________________________________________________________
> > > >>>> Subscription information may be found at:
> > > >>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> --
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Thanks and Regards
> > > >>>> Mohammed Naviwala
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > _______________________________________________________________________
> > > >>> Subscription information may be found at:
> > > >>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > _______________________________________________________________________
> > > >> Subscription information may be found at:
> > > >> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> >
> >
> > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >
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>
>
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-- 
Marc Abel
CCIE #35470
(Routing and Switching)
Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net