Re: PhD vs CCIE

Nothing more from my side guys. It has been interesting but Paul is right it is a CCIE forum. Got to go and shake the new Juniper Champion community http://www.thechampioncommunity.com/

Thanks,

Bill

Sent from my iPad

On 06.03.2012, at 23:00, Shaughn <maniac.smg_at_gmail.com> wrote:

> Apparently not
>
>
>
> CCIE # 23962
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 06 Mar 2012, at 11:50 PM, JB Poplawski <jb.poplawski_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Has this horse been beaten enough yet?
>> JB
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 1:53 PM, Bill6521 <bil6521_at_netscape.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Paul, and welcome to the discussion. The point is these are two minor
>>> examples and did Terry really "discover" Eigrp. I think he would be the
>>> first
>>> to tell you it was a team effort.
>>>
>>> The point we are shifting from is that CCIEs are not "unique" but PhDs
>>> have to
>>> submit a unique piece of work. The Cisco CCIE Lab exam is looking for the
>>> same
>>> set of answers or almost all the same set of answers from candidates who
>>> pass
>>> a PhD is not.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Bill
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Paul Negron <negron.paul_at_gmail.com>
>>> To: Narbik Kocharians <narbikk_at_gmail.com>; Bill6521 <bil6521_at_netscape.net>
>>> CC: joe <joe_at_affirmedsystems.com>; jazzsunn <jazzsunn_at_gmail.com>; ccielab
>>> <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
>>> Sent: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 20:44
>>> Subject: Re: PhD vs CCIE
>>>
>>>
>>> That was the point I was looking for.
>>> -
>>> aul Negron
>>> CIE# 14856 CCSI# 22752
>>> enior Technical Instructor
>>>
>>>> From: Narbik Kocharians <narbikk_at_gmail.com>
>>> Reply-To: Narbik Kocharians <narbikk_at_gmail.com>
>>> Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 11:25:44 -0800
>>> To: Bill6521 <bil6521_at_netscape.net>
>>> Cc: <joe_at_affirmedsystems.com>, <jazzsunn_at_gmail.com>,
>>> <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
>>> Subject: Re: PhD vs CCIE
>>>
>>> I don't know if any were PHDs that designed Cisco's equipment. Terry
>>> Slattery (CCIE 1026) wrote major or a portion of Eigrp, and i did not see
>>> a
>>> Dr. in front of his name, but he is a CCIE. George Morton who was a PHD
>>> before he attended my class and got his CCIE (Dual now) has a much better
>>> job than when he only had his PHD. May be you spent 30K to get your CCIE
>>> (And that is on the expensive side) but some spend 100s of thousands to
>>> get
>>> their PHDs, and i don't see a huge difference in salary.
>>> But i guess we are both looking at it from different angles.
>>> The guy who has a M5 BMW will always tell you that he kills Porsche turbo,
>>> and vice versa. But the truth of the matter is that it all depends on the
>>> *
>>> driver*. When i look at Bill Gates and the top 50 richest people in the
>>> world including Steve Jobs, i don't see Dr. in front of their names, but
>>> then again i don't see a CCIE number after their name.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 11:03 AM, Bill6521 <bil6521_at_netscape.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> No not really Narbik. The difference is that PhDs have to be unique -
>>>> CCIEs dont we all sit the same exam - or all of one of a number of exams.
>>>> There are more PhDs because there are more PhD students worldwide than
>>>> CCIEs. PhDs are supposed to move technological or other boundaries in
>>> some
>>>> way - when in the last ten (10) years have we seen a unique piece of work
>>>> from a CCIE that did that - who designs Ciscos equipment - CCIEs - I dont
>>>> think so.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Bill
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Narbik Kocharians <narbikk_at_gmail.com>
>>>> To: Bill6521 <bil6521_at_netscape.net>
>>>> CC: joe <joe_at_affirmedsystems.com>; jazzsunn <jazzsunn_at_gmail.com>;
>>> ccielab
>>>> <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
>>>> Sent: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 19:55
>>>> Subject: Re: PhD vs CCIE
>>>>
>>>> BTW, so you see that number of CCIEs in the world has nothing to do with
>>>> the value of the cert. If it did, PHDs will have no value at all, i bet
>>>> there are 10 times more PHDs than CCIEs. A bad point.
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 10:25 AM, Bill6521 <bil6521_at_netscape.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Thats a nice question Narbikk. The answer is no but for one reason -
>>> PhDs
>>>>> are awarded by many universities but CCIEs are only awarded by one
>>> company.
>>>>> Is the question therefore do we really need so many types of CCIE or
>>> could
>>>>> we consolidate them into a more generalist CCIE. Doesnt the whole
>>> concept
>>>>> of UC for example mean for example that we need a more generalist sort
>>> of
>>>>> CCIE again ie what CCIE discipline doesnt have a high proportion of
>>> Routing
>>>>> and Switching ? Couldnt we revert back to a three day CCIE where you did
>>>>> the core as Routing and Switching and then the other two days in the
>>>>> specialist areas - security, wireless, service provider, etc
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Narbik Kocharians <narbikk_at_gmail.com>
>>>>> To: Bill6521 <bil6521_at_netscape.net>
>>>>> CC: joe <joe_at_affirmedsystems.com>; jazzsunn <jazzsunn_at_gmail.com>;
>>>>> ccielab <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
>>>>> Sent: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 19:18
>>>>> Subject: Re: PhD vs CCIE
>>>>>
>>>>> Few years ago we had one or two tracks, these days we have more tracks.
>>>>> Do we know the number of people who have their PHDs?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 8:38 AM, Bill6521 <bil6521_at_netscape.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Joe,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Agreed and why do you think there are now 26,000 CCIEs against 10,000 a
>>>>>> few
>>>>>> years ago - even certification is a money making business - I
>>> estimated I
>>>>>> spent around $30000 on getting my CCIE - between courses , labs, exams,
>>>>>> bootcamps , time of work - and I didnt pass it first time. I think
>>> there
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> only a 20% first time pass rate now and that means a lot of money to
>>>>>> someone.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And by the way I dont mind people making money out of me - even on
>>>>>> certification as long as I get value for money.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Joseph L. Brunner <joe_at_affirmedsystems.com>
>>>>>> To: Bill6521 <bil6521_at_netscape.net>; jazzsunn <jazzsunn_at_gmail.com>;
>>>>>> ccielab
>>>>>> <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
>>>>>> Sent: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 17:34
>>>>>> Subject: RE: PhD vs CCIE
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ib d bet dollars to cents 10,000+ of the 17,320 R/S guys are
>>> emeritusb&
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If Cisco didnb t do that the cert would look like it isnb t as valuable
>>>>>> as
>>>>>> it was in 1999 and they couldnb t make as much money selling training
>>>>>> for it
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From: Bill6521 [mailto:bil6521_at_netscape.net]
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 11:29 AM
>>>>>> To: Joseph L. Brunner; jazzsunn_at_gmail.com; ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
>>>>>> Subject: Re: PhD vs CCIE
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Joseph,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Read my article in CCIE Flyer. Nor did they break it down by age or sex
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> nationality.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Joseph L. Brunner <joe_at_affirmedsystems.com>
>>>>>> To: jazzsunn <jazzsunn_at_gmail.com>; Bill6521 <bil6521_at_netscape.net>;
>>>>>> ccielab
>>>>>> <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
>>>>>> Sent: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 17:22
>>>>>> Subject: RE: PhD vs CCIE
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Notice they don't break down how many "Emeritus"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> LOL
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: jazzsunn_at_gmail.com [mailto:jazzsunn_at_gmail.com]
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 11:15 AM
>>>>>> To: Joseph L. Brunner; Bill6521; ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
>>>>>> Subject: Re: PhD vs CCIE
>>>>>>
>>>>>> According to LTRCC-3000.pdf (updated 1/9/12, available on
>>>>>> ciscolivevirtual.com),
>>>>>> there are 26,634 currently certified CCIEs.
>>>>>> RS - 17,320
>>>>>> Sec - 3794
>>>>>> SP - 2885
>>>>>> Voice - 2291
>>>>>> SAN - 170
>>>>>> Wireless - 93
>>>>>> CCDE - 63
>>>>>> SP Ops - 11
>>>>>> CCAr - 7
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent via BlackBerry
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: "Joseph L. Brunner" <joe_at_affirmedsystems.com>
>>>>>> Sender: nobody_at_groupstudy.com
>>>>>> Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 16:07:02
>>>>>> To: Bill6521<bil6521_at_netscape.net>;
>>>>>> ccielab_at_groupstudy.com<ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
>>>>>> Reply-To: "Joseph L. Brunner" <joe_at_affirmedsystems.com>
>>>>>> Subject: RE: PhD vs CCIE
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No there are far less CCIE's than that - many older lions are retiring
>>>>>> from
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> business.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Of that number how many are current on today's technologies?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Don't sell yourself short - I had a job req out at a client in 2009 for
>>>>>> a CCIE
>>>>>> at $225,000 or so - the first 50 guys we interviewed could not explain
>>>>>> how
>>>>>> DHCP
>>>>>> worked :) (DoRa for those of you that know)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "how many good ones"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: nobody_at_groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com] On Behalf
>>> Of
>>>>>> Bill6521
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 10:57 AM
>>>>>> To: ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
>>>>>> Subject: Fwd: PhD vs CCIE
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Guys,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think we are all missing the point here the discussion from my point
>>>>>> of view
>>>>>> is "employability" and here is my perspective. Today I understand there
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> over
>>>>>> 30,000 CCIEs thats three times what there was a few years ago and even
>>>>>> 7,000 more then when I got my number. Gone are the days when employers
>>>>>> would
>>>>>> be
>>>>>> lucky about getting one CCIE and we were literally regarded as "network
>>>>>> gods".
>>>>>> We are competing against "each other" and in a highly competitive world
>>>>>> - even as CCIEs. In that competitive world you have to give yourself an
>>>>>> "edge"
>>>>>> a something extra - what I would suggest is dont just bank on getting
>>>>>> employed
>>>>>> because you are a CCIE - and dont forget some off us are also getting
>>>>>> employed
>>>>>> because we have track records as well as being CCIEs. Most employment
>>>>>> agents/HR
>>>>>> departments do a word trawl in the first instance and the more edge you
>>>>>> have
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> more likely you have to move to the next stage of interview etc thats
>>>>>> what
>>>>>> these
>>>>>> certifications do for you - and dont also be a one trick pony
>>>>>> - consider doing a JNCIE or HP Master ASE as well as another CCIE.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> *Narbik Kocharians
>>>>> *CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
>>>>> *www.MicronicsTraining.com*
>>>>> Sr. Technical Instructor
>>>>> YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
>>>>> Training & Remote Racks available
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> *Narbik Kocharians
>>>> *CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
>>>> *www.MicronicsTraining.com* <http://www.micronicstraining.com/>
>>>> Sr. Technical Instructor
>>>> YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
>>>> Training & Remote Racks available
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> *Narbik Kocharians
>>> *CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
>>> *www.MicronicsTraining.com* <http://www.micronicstraining.com/>
>>> Sr. Technical Instructor
>>> YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
>>> Training & Remote Racks available
>>>
>>>
>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>
>>>
>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>
>>
>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________________________________
>> Subscription information may be found at:
>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html

Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
Received on Tue Mar 06 2012 - 23:07:15 ART