Re: PhD vs CCIE

Apparently not

CCIE # 23962

Sent from my iPhone

On 06 Mar 2012, at 11:50 PM, JB Poplawski <jb.poplawski_at_gmail.com> wrote:

> Has this horse been beaten enough yet?
> JB
>
> On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 1:53 PM, Bill6521 <bil6521_at_netscape.net> wrote:
>
>> Hi Paul, and welcome to the discussion. The point is these are two minor
>> examples and did Terry really "discover" Eigrp. I think he would be the
>> first
>> to tell you it was a team effort.
>>
>> The point we are shifting from is that CCIEs are not "unique" but PhDs
>> have to
>> submit a unique piece of work. The Cisco CCIE Lab exam is looking for the
>> same
>> set of answers or almost all the same set of answers from candidates who
>> pass
>> a PhD is not.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Bill
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Paul Negron <negron.paul_at_gmail.com>
>> To: Narbik Kocharians <narbikk_at_gmail.com>; Bill6521 <bil6521_at_netscape.net>
>> CC: joe <joe_at_affirmedsystems.com>; jazzsunn <jazzsunn_at_gmail.com>; ccielab
>> <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
>> Sent: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 20:44
>> Subject: Re: PhD vs CCIE
>>
>>
>> That was the point I was looking for.
>> -
>> aul Negron
>> CIE# 14856 CCSI# 22752
>> enior Technical Instructor
>>
>>> From: Narbik Kocharians <narbikk_at_gmail.com>
>> Reply-To: Narbik Kocharians <narbikk_at_gmail.com>
>> Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 11:25:44 -0800
>> To: Bill6521 <bil6521_at_netscape.net>
>> Cc: <joe_at_affirmedsystems.com>, <jazzsunn_at_gmail.com>,
>> <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
>> Subject: Re: PhD vs CCIE
>>
>> I don't know if any were PHDs that designed Cisco's equipment. Terry
>> Slattery (CCIE 1026) wrote major or a portion of Eigrp, and i did not see
>> a
>> Dr. in front of his name, but he is a CCIE. George Morton who was a PHD
>> before he attended my class and got his CCIE (Dual now) has a much better
>> job than when he only had his PHD. May be you spent 30K to get your CCIE
>> (And that is on the expensive side) but some spend 100s of thousands to
>> get
>> their PHDs, and i don't see a huge difference in salary.
>> But i guess we are both looking at it from different angles.
>> The guy who has a M5 BMW will always tell you that he kills Porsche turbo,
>> and vice versa. But the truth of the matter is that it all depends on the
>> *
>> driver*. When i look at Bill Gates and the top 50 richest people in the
>> world including Steve Jobs, i don't see Dr. in front of their names, but
>> then again i don't see a CCIE number after their name.
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 11:03 AM, Bill6521 <bil6521_at_netscape.net> wrote:
>>
>>> No not really Narbik. The difference is that PhDs have to be unique -
>>> CCIEs dont we all sit the same exam - or all of one of a number of exams.
>>> There are more PhDs because there are more PhD students worldwide than
>>> CCIEs. PhDs are supposed to move technological or other boundaries in
>> some
>>> way - when in the last ten (10) years have we seen a unique piece of work
>>> from a CCIE that did that - who designs Ciscos equipment - CCIEs - I dont
>>> think so.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Bill
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Narbik Kocharians <narbikk_at_gmail.com>
>>> To: Bill6521 <bil6521_at_netscape.net>
>>> CC: joe <joe_at_affirmedsystems.com>; jazzsunn <jazzsunn_at_gmail.com>;
>> ccielab
>>> <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
>>> Sent: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 19:55
>>> Subject: Re: PhD vs CCIE
>>>
>>> BTW, so you see that number of CCIEs in the world has nothing to do with
>>> the value of the cert. If it did, PHDs will have no value at all, i bet
>>> there are 10 times more PHDs than CCIEs. A bad point.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 10:25 AM, Bill6521 <bil6521_at_netscape.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thats a nice question Narbikk. The answer is no but for one reason -
>> PhDs
>>>> are awarded by many universities but CCIEs are only awarded by one
>> company.
>>>> Is the question therefore do we really need so many types of CCIE or
>> could
>>>> we consolidate them into a more generalist CCIE. Doesnt the whole
>> concept
>>>> of UC for example mean for example that we need a more generalist sort
>> of
>>>> CCIE again ie what CCIE discipline doesnt have a high proportion of
>> Routing
>>>> and Switching ? Couldnt we revert back to a three day CCIE where you did
>>>> the core as Routing and Switching and then the other two days in the
>>>> specialist areas - security, wireless, service provider, etc
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Narbik Kocharians <narbikk_at_gmail.com>
>>>> To: Bill6521 <bil6521_at_netscape.net>
>>>> CC: joe <joe_at_affirmedsystems.com>; jazzsunn <jazzsunn_at_gmail.com>;
>>>> ccielab <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
>>>> Sent: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 19:18
>>>> Subject: Re: PhD vs CCIE
>>>>
>>>> Few years ago we had one or two tracks, these days we have more tracks.
>>>> Do we know the number of people who have their PHDs?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 8:38 AM, Bill6521 <bil6521_at_netscape.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Joe,
>>>>>
>>>>> Agreed and why do you think there are now 26,000 CCIEs against 10,000 a
>>>>> few
>>>>> years ago - even certification is a money making business - I
>> estimated I
>>>>> spent around $30000 on getting my CCIE - between courses , labs, exams,
>>>>> bootcamps , time of work - and I didnt pass it first time. I think
>> there
>>>>> is
>>>>> only a 20% first time pass rate now and that means a lot of money to
>>>>> someone.
>>>>>
>>>>> And by the way I dont mind people making money out of me - even on
>>>>> certification as long as I get value for money.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Bill
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Joseph L. Brunner <joe_at_affirmedsystems.com>
>>>>> To: Bill6521 <bil6521_at_netscape.net>; jazzsunn <jazzsunn_at_gmail.com>;
>>>>> ccielab
>>>>> <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
>>>>> Sent: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 17:34
>>>>> Subject: RE: PhD vs CCIE
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ib d bet dollars to cents 10,000+ of the 17,320 R/S guys are
>> emeritusb&
>>>>>
>>>>> If Cisco didnb t do that the cert would look like it isnb t as valuable
>>>>> as
>>>>> it was in 1999 and they couldnb t make as much money selling training
>>>>> for it
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From: Bill6521 [mailto:bil6521_at_netscape.net]
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 11:29 AM
>>>>> To: Joseph L. Brunner; jazzsunn_at_gmail.com; ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
>>>>> Subject: Re: PhD vs CCIE
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Joseph,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Read my article in CCIE Flyer. Nor did they break it down by age or sex
>>>>> or
>>>>> nationality.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Bill
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Joseph L. Brunner <joe_at_affirmedsystems.com>
>>>>> To: jazzsunn <jazzsunn_at_gmail.com>; Bill6521 <bil6521_at_netscape.net>;
>>>>> ccielab
>>>>> <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
>>>>> Sent: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 17:22
>>>>> Subject: RE: PhD vs CCIE
>>>>>
>>>>> Notice they don't break down how many "Emeritus"
>>>>>
>>>>> LOL
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: jazzsunn_at_gmail.com [mailto:jazzsunn_at_gmail.com]
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 11:15 AM
>>>>> To: Joseph L. Brunner; Bill6521; ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
>>>>> Subject: Re: PhD vs CCIE
>>>>>
>>>>> According to LTRCC-3000.pdf (updated 1/9/12, available on
>>>>> ciscolivevirtual.com),
>>>>> there are 26,634 currently certified CCIEs.
>>>>> RS - 17,320
>>>>> Sec - 3794
>>>>> SP - 2885
>>>>> Voice - 2291
>>>>> SAN - 170
>>>>> Wireless - 93
>>>>> CCDE - 63
>>>>> SP Ops - 11
>>>>> CCAr - 7
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent via BlackBerry
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: "Joseph L. Brunner" <joe_at_affirmedsystems.com>
>>>>> Sender: nobody_at_groupstudy.com
>>>>> Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 16:07:02
>>>>> To: Bill6521<bil6521_at_netscape.net>;
>>>>> ccielab_at_groupstudy.com<ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
>>>>> Reply-To: "Joseph L. Brunner" <joe_at_affirmedsystems.com>
>>>>> Subject: RE: PhD vs CCIE
>>>>>
>>>>> No there are far less CCIE's than that - many older lions are retiring
>>>>> from
>>>>> the
>>>>> business.
>>>>>
>>>>> Of that number how many are current on today's technologies?
>>>>>
>>>>> Don't sell yourself short - I had a job req out at a client in 2009 for
>>>>> a CCIE
>>>>> at $225,000 or so - the first 50 guys we interviewed could not explain
>>>>> how
>>>>> DHCP
>>>>> worked :) (DoRa for those of you that know)
>>>>>
>>>>> "how many good ones"
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nobody_at_groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com] On Behalf
>> Of
>>>>> Bill6521
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 10:57 AM
>>>>> To: ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
>>>>> Subject: Fwd: PhD vs CCIE
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Guys,
>>>>>
>>>>> I think we are all missing the point here the discussion from my point
>>>>> of view
>>>>> is "employability" and here is my perspective. Today I understand there
>>>>> are
>>>>> over
>>>>> 30,000 CCIEs thats three times what there was a few years ago and even
>>>>> 7,000 more then when I got my number. Gone are the days when employers
>>>>> would
>>>>> be
>>>>> lucky about getting one CCIE and we were literally regarded as "network
>>>>> gods".
>>>>> We are competing against "each other" and in a highly competitive world
>>>>> - even as CCIEs. In that competitive world you have to give yourself an
>>>>> "edge"
>>>>> a something extra - what I would suggest is dont just bank on getting
>>>>> employed
>>>>> because you are a CCIE - and dont forget some off us are also getting
>>>>> employed
>>>>> because we have track records as well as being CCIEs. Most employment
>>>>> agents/HR
>>>>> departments do a word trawl in the first instance and the more edge you
>>>>> have
>>>>> the
>>>>> more likely you have to move to the next stage of interview etc thats
>>>>> what
>>>>> these
>>>>> certifications do for you - and dont also be a one trick pony
>>>>> - consider doing a JNCIE or HP Master ASE as well as another CCIE.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
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>>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> *Narbik Kocharians
>>>> *CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
>>>> *www.MicronicsTraining.com*
>>>> Sr. Technical Instructor
>>>> YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
>>>> Training & Remote Racks available
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> *Narbik Kocharians
>>> *CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
>>> *www.MicronicsTraining.com* <http://www.micronicstraining.com/>
>>> Sr. Technical Instructor
>>> YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
>>> Training & Remote Racks available
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> *Narbik Kocharians
>> *CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
>> *www.MicronicsTraining.com* <http://www.micronicstraining.com/>
>> Sr. Technical Instructor
>> YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
>> Training & Remote Racks available
>>
>>
>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________________________________
>> Subscription information may be found at:
>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>
>>
>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________________________________
>> Subscription information may be found at:
>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>
>
> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
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Received on Wed Mar 07 2012 - 00:00:04 ART