RE: OT: CCIE != PhD

I think that the comparison between CCXX and degree also depends on where you
get the degree. If you mean a degree (whether it is PhD, master or Bachelor)
from some no-name school, then possibly getting a degree is not that
difficult. However if you compare to degree from some good school, then (this
concept is introduced many many times by nrf about a few years ago) being
admitted to the university is already very difficult (while there is no
admission requirement to get CCIE other than some working experience). I have
never obtained CCAr (and I don't have CCDE), so I am not able to comment on
whether CCAr is like PhD or post-doc. In summary, my take is that, CCIE
requires me to know a lot of thing but not in depth. PhD is the other
extreme.Getting a CCIE can result in a larger pay check, but no one really
know what is CCIE if that person is not in the networking industry.> From:
niedentj_at_hotmail.com
> To: khawarb_at_gmail.com; hsm_p_at_hotmail.com
> CC: ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
> Subject: RE: OT: CCIE != PhD
> Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2012 13:01:42 -0800
>
> KB,
>
> I find your comments interesting. For my Bachelors and Masters 60% only
held
> true during the Bachelors - just to get into my program for Masters I had
to
> have over 70% (C) grade point average to get in (which I easily did);
> perhaps where you attended had different requirements. If you look at the
> CCDE and CCAr, you cannot pass either without having an understanding of
how
> protocols work, best practices for designs AND implementations as well as
> business acumen. Cisco previously had the Ar at the top of their
> certification pyramid. So, my question is, if you and John believe the Ar
is
> not the PhD, then what is the Ar? Post Doctoral ? I will be starting on my
> PhD at the end of this year and I am already wondering what I will do after
> since there is no further degree that I can earn. I don't see me going for
> another PhD or any value in another masters. So far all I am considering
> after the PhD is teaching and learning new languages.
>
> Travis
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody_at_groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of KB
> Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 7:19 AM
> To: John Smith
> Cc: CCIE Lab
> Subject: Re: OT: CCIE != PhD
>
> I have a Bachelor's & a Master's in Computer Science. I also have multiple
> CCIE's (R/S, Security, SP, Voice, Storage). I am also a CCDE.
>
> My personal opinion is that the two streams are different and really not
> comparable.
>
> If you talk about the difficulty level, I found the CCIE tougher to get
than
> my Degrees for the mere fact that your margin for error is very less. You
> need to pass the exam at 80%. In order to pass a class in college, your
> passing percentage was 60%. Which was not tough to do at all.
>
> Having said that, the toughest exam that I have taken is definitely the
CCDE
> exam. Much tougher than any CCIE exam or any college exam.
>
> I agree with John in terms of a Phd being similar to the CCAr. That is
> because the formats are based on a thesis and backing it up in front of a
> panel.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 03-Mar-2012, at 8:23 PM, John Smith <hsm_p_at_hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Having a PhD from top school in US, working as a professor now and
> > also CCIEx2, I must say that I disagreee with teh following (I don't
> > have CCAr) > Associates (2 years) - CCxA *
> >> Bachelors (4 years) - CCxP *
> >> Masters (6 years) - CCIE *
> >> PhD (8+ years) - CCAr
> > You can say that the intellectual requirement for CCIE is similar to a
> > second year in university. I would place CCxP and CCxA in Gr12 math or
> > one course in first year level. However I must admit that the
> > time/stress requirement for CCIE lab exam is more demanding than
> > Bachelor/Masters/PhD. (the closest comparison is final exam for
> > bachelor - there is not much time-crunching stress for graduate level)
> > This is just my first hand experience. You are welcome to disagree if
you
> have also been through all these. > From:
> > niedentj_at_hotmail.com
> >> To: ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
> >> Subject: OT: CCIE != PhD
> >> Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2012 20:46:42 -0800
> >>
> >> I usually don't speak out about this stuff however I have noticed way
> >> too
> > many people comparing the CCIE to the PhD and quite frankly I find
> > that an absurd comparison. Anyone who has worked on their Masters and
> > PhD can attest to the rigor that is required for the PhD as well as
> > the process involved and final goals. If you look at the CCIE it is a
test
> that encompasses:
> >>
> >> - A CISCO specific technology line
> >> - Each test set has a fixed set of possible exams that are updated
> >> and
> > swapped time to time to avoid cheating
> >> - Only requires configuration and troubleshooting - again, heavy
> >> Cisco
> > specific focus
> >> - Graded by a system, confirmed by a human
> >> - 8 hours to prove that you have absorbed enough knowledge to
> >> configure
> > things the Cisco way
> >>
> >>
> >> The PhD is not this at all, in fact the PhD's main goal is for the
> >> student
> > to learn enough about their area of interest so they can build a
> > thesis, go out and scientifically research it and then DEFEND it and
> > add to the body of human knowledge. While we all spend thousands of
> > dollars, hundreds if not thousands of hours in labs / working and
> > hours weekly responding to GS, with the CCIE we are not creating
> > anything new for the body of human knowledge. I don't say this
> > lightly as I know the vendors work hard on their materials however if
> > you look at two of them side by side you will see many of the same
> > configurations as that's the way Cisco programmed the IOS parser to
handle
> the magic.
> >>
> >> There are key milestones in the PhD process / journey including:
> >>
> >> - Research classes
> >> - Academic writing classes
> >> - Colloquia
> >> - Comps
> >> - Thesis Research
> >> - Thesis Dissertation
> >> - Thesis Defense
> >>
> >> Keep in mind that most universities have a 2 times and then out
> >> policy -
> > thus meaning if you fail your comps or defense twice, you are out. You
> > have just spent 10's of thousands of dollars and years on your thesis
> > and education and failed.
> >>
> >> In comparison, Cisco allows you to take the CCIE over and over and
> >> over and
> > requires no original contribution to the field of
> > networking/security/voice/SP, etc. This is just to gain revenue and
> > ensure Cisco skilled workers in IT worldwide.
> >>
> >> As I see it, the closest thing to a PhD Cisco has now is the CCAr.
> >> While
> > Cisco's path to making and expanding this program has been rather
> > lengthy and slow, I do hope that they continue to push it. The Ar
> > cannot be accomplished by just any testking and requires a defense. In
> > addition it requires an initial response to questions, similar to
> > comps, and they MUST be acceptable before moving on to the panel phase.
> >>
> >> So here's how I see it:
> >>
> >> Associates (2 years) - CCxA *
> >> Bachelors (4 years) - CCxP *
> >> Masters (6 years) - CCIE *
> >> PhD (8+ years) - CCAr
> >>
> >> Good luck in your studies!
> >>
> >> Travis
> >>
> >>
> >> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >>
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Received on Sat Mar 03 2012 - 21:06:26 ART