Re: OT: CCIE != PhD

AMEN!!!

-- 
Paul Negron
CCIE# 14856 CCSI# 22752
Senior Technical Instructor
> From: Aaron <aaron1_at_gvtc.com>
> Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2012 22:38:03 -0600
> To: 'Paul Negron' <negron.paul_at_gmail.com>, 'Radioactive Frog'
> <pbhatkoti_at_gmail.com>, 'Travis Niedens' <niedentj_at_hotmail.com>
> Cc: <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
> Subject: RE: OT: CCIE != PhD
> 
> Since Paul brought family into the discussion...allow me to expound on that
> my feelings...
> 
> I was single (unmarried) when I attained a Bachelors in Computer Science
> while holding a full time active career in the US Marines as a Staff
> Sergeant.
> 
> I'm now married with 7 children and trying to get a CCIE.  (I've also heard
> college is very hard when you have a wife and children also)
> 
> I think this is one of the most difficult things I've ever done....try to
> get a CCIE while being a full time Sr Net Eng, father and husband...
> 
> I think it would be one thing to attain the CCIE... but it's a whooole other
> thing to cross the finish line of CCIE and have my wife and children proud
> and happy for me, not resenting the CCIE that dad/hubby neglected them while
> pursuing.  Paul thanks for the reminder....I needed it.
> 
> I DO NOT want a CCIE if it means I have to be at odds with my wife, children
> and others over it.
> 
> After all, when you are old and grey and perhaps breathing your last breath,
> do you want to be surrounded at your bed side by a bunch of GS'ers!! Ha, no
> of course not....you want the ones who you love (your family) around you....
> I'll end with that.
> 
> Aaron
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody_at_groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of Paul
> Negron
> Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 8:49 PM
> To: Radioactive Frog; Travis Niedens
> Cc: ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
> Subject: Re: OT: CCIE != PhD
> 
> I've always said. You need to be able to take of your family at the end of
> the day.Hopefully you can help take care of others as well. Everything else
> is just a stroke job for your ego.
> 
> Paul
> --
> Paul Negron
> CCIE# 14856 CCSI# 22752
> Senior Technical Instructor
> 
> 
> 
>> From: Radioactive Frog <pbhatkoti_at_gmail.com>
>> Reply-To: Radioactive Frog <pbhatkoti_at_gmail.com>
>> Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2012 13:24:07 +1100
>> To: Travis Niedens <niedentj_at_hotmail.com>
>> Cc: <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
>> Subject: Re: OT: CCIE != PhD
>> 
>> Completely agreed with Travis.
>> 
>> Two completely different things.
>> 
>> With CCIE we're not inventing or doing anything new but just like a Chef
>> show on the Tele.
>> Who can cook, and how accurate it is.
>> 
>> I guess at the end what  really count is that your interest.
>> The matter of the fact is that if you're really clever and have great idea
>> to develop something, you should not do CCIE at all - go for PhD. (there
>> would be an arguments that why do PhD if you've great ideas, inventive
>> mind).
>> 
>> 
>> However, if you're just doing a PhD without any great invention in mind
>> (which most people do), then one would be better off with doing CCIE.
>> 
>> Remember CCIE pays more than PhD ::)
>> 
>> ccAr is definitely interesting.
>> 
>> 
>> On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 3:46 PM, Travis Niedens <niedentj_at_hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>> 
>>> I usually don't speak out about this stuff however I have noticed way too
>>> many people comparing the CCIE to the PhD and quite frankly I find that
> an
>>> absurd comparison. Anyone who has worked on their Masters and PhD can
>>> attest to the rigor that is required for the PhD as well as the process
>>> involved and final goals. If you look at the CCIE it is a test that
>>> encompasses:
>>> 
>>> - A CISCO specific technology line
>>> - Each test set has a fixed set of possible exams that are updated and
>>> swapped time to time to avoid cheating
>>> - Only requires configuration and troubleshooting - again, heavy Cisco
>>> specific focus
>>> - Graded by a system, confirmed by a human
>>> - 8 hours to prove that you have absorbed enough knowledge to configure
>>> things the Cisco way
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The PhD is not this at all, in fact the PhD's main goal is for the
> student
>>> to learn enough about their area of interest so they can build a thesis,
> go
>>> out and scientifically research it and then DEFEND it and add to the body
>>> of human knowledge. While we all spend thousands of dollars, hundreds if
>>> not thousands of hours in labs / working and hours weekly responding to
> GS,
>>> with the CCIE we are not creating anything new for the body of human
>>> knowledge.  I don't say this lightly as I know the vendors work hard on
>>> their materials however if you look at two of them side by side you will
>>> see many of the same configurations as that's the way Cisco programmed
> the
>>> IOS parser to handle the magic.
>>> 
>>> There are key milestones in the PhD process / journey including:
>>> 
>>> - Research classes
>>> - Academic writing classes
>>> - Colloquia
>>> - Comps
>>> - Thesis Research
>>> - Thesis Dissertation
>>> - Thesis Defense
>>> 
>>> Keep in mind that most universities have a 2 times and then out policy -
>>> thus meaning if you fail your comps or defense twice, you are out. You
> have
>>> just spent 10's of thousands of dollars and years on your thesis and
>>> education and failed.
>>> 
>>> In comparison, Cisco allows you to take the CCIE over and over and over
>>> and requires no original contribution to the field of
>>> networking/security/voice/SP, etc. This is just to gain revenue and
> ensure
>>> Cisco skilled workers in IT worldwide.
>>> 
>>> As I see it, the closest thing to a PhD Cisco has now is the CCAr. While
>>> Cisco's path to making and expanding this program has been rather lengthy
>>> and slow, I do hope that they continue to push it. The Ar cannot be
>>> accomplished by just any testking and requires a defense. In addition it
>>> requires an initial response to questions, similar to comps, and they
> MUST
>>> be acceptable before moving on to the panel phase.
>>> 
>>> So here's how I see it:
>>> 
>>> Associates (2 years) - CCxA *
>>> Bachelors (4 years) - CCxP *
>>> Masters (6 years) - CCIE *
>>> PhD (8+ years) - CCAr
>>> 
>>> Good luck in your studies!
>>> 
>>> Travis
>>> 
>>> 
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>>> 
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