Re: OT: CCIE != PhD

well said , KB

CCIE more difficult & valuabe than college degree

CCDE more than MS degree

CCA more than PHD .

On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 6:19 PM, KB <khawarb_at_gmail.com> wrote:

> I have a Bachelor's & a Master's in Computer Science. I also have multiple
> CCIE's (R/S, Security, SP, Voice, Storage). I am also a CCDE.
>
> My personal opinion is that the two streams are different and really not
> comparable.
>
> If you talk about the difficulty level, I found the CCIE tougher to get
> than my Degrees for the mere fact that your margin for error is very less.
> You need to pass the exam at 80%. In order to pass a class in college, your
> passing percentage was 60%. Which was not tough to do at all.
>
> Having said that, the toughest exam that I have taken is definitely the
> CCDE exam. Much tougher than any CCIE exam or any college exam.
>
> I agree with John in terms of a Phd being similar to the CCAr. That is
> because the formats are based on a thesis and backing it up in front of a
> panel.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 03-Mar-2012, at 8:23 PM, John Smith <hsm_p_at_hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Having a PhD from top school in US, working as a professor now and also
> > CCIEx2, I must say that I disagreee with teh following (I don't have
> CCAr) >
> > Associates (2 years) - CCxA *
> >> Bachelors (4 years) - CCxP *
> >> Masters (6 years) - CCIE *
> >> PhD (8+ years) - CCAr
> > You can say that the intellectual requirement for CCIE is similar to a
> second
> > year in university. I would place CCxP and CCxA in Gr12 math or one
> course in
> > first year level. However I must admit that the time/stress requirement
> for
> > CCIE lab exam is more demanding than Bachelor/Masters/PhD. (the closest
> > comparison is final exam for bachelor - there is not much time-crunching
> > stress for graduate level) This is just my first hand experience. You
> are
> > welcome to disagree if you have also been through all these. > From:
> > niedentj_at_hotmail.com
> >> To: ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
> >> Subject: OT: CCIE != PhD
> >> Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2012 20:46:42 -0800
> >>
> >> I usually don't speak out about this stuff however I have noticed way
> too
> > many people comparing the CCIE to the PhD and quite frankly I find that
> an
> > absurd comparison. Anyone who has worked on their Masters and PhD can
> attest
> > to the rigor that is required for the PhD as well as the process
> involved and
> > final goals. If you look at the CCIE it is a test that encompasses:
> >>
> >> - A CISCO specific technology line
> >> - Each test set has a fixed set of possible exams that are updated and
> > swapped time to time to avoid cheating
> >> - Only requires configuration and troubleshooting - again, heavy Cisco
> > specific focus
> >> - Graded by a system, confirmed by a human
> >> - 8 hours to prove that you have absorbed enough knowledge to configure
> > things the Cisco way
> >>
> >>
> >> The PhD is not this at all, in fact the PhD's main goal is for the
> student
> > to learn enough about their area of interest so they can build a thesis,
> go
> > out and scientifically research it and then DEFEND it and add to the
> body of
> > human knowledge. While we all spend thousands of dollars, hundreds if not
> > thousands of hours in labs / working and hours weekly responding to GS,
> with
> > the CCIE we are not creating anything new for the body of human
> knowledge. I
> > don't say this lightly as I know the vendors work hard on their materials
> > however if you look at two of them side by side you will see many of the
> same
> > configurations as that's the way Cisco programmed the IOS parser to
> handle the
> > magic.
> >>
> >> There are key milestones in the PhD process / journey including:
> >>
> >> - Research classes
> >> - Academic writing classes
> >> - Colloquia
> >> - Comps
> >> - Thesis Research
> >> - Thesis Dissertation
> >> - Thesis Defense
> >>
> >> Keep in mind that most universities have a 2 times and then out policy -
> > thus meaning if you fail your comps or defense twice, you are out. You
> have
> > just spent 10's of thousands of dollars and years on your thesis and
> education
> > and failed.
> >>
> >> In comparison, Cisco allows you to take the CCIE over and over and over
> and
> > requires no original contribution to the field of
> > networking/security/voice/SP, etc. This is just to gain revenue and
> ensure
> > Cisco skilled workers in IT worldwide.
> >>
> >> As I see it, the closest thing to a PhD Cisco has now is the CCAr. While
> > Cisco's path to making and expanding this program has been rather
> lengthy and
> > slow, I do hope that they continue to push it. The Ar cannot be
> accomplished
> > by just any testking and requires a defense. In addition it requires an
> > initial response to questions, similar to comps, and they MUST be
> acceptable
> > before moving on to the panel phase.
> >>
> >> So here's how I see it:
> >>
> >> Associates (2 years) - CCxA *
> >> Bachelors (4 years) - CCxP *
> >> Masters (6 years) - CCIE *
> >> PhD (8+ years) - CCAr
> >>
> >> Good luck in your studies!
> >>
> >> Travis
> >>
> >>
> >> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________________________________
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> >
> >
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> >
> > _______________________________________________________________________
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>
>
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>
> _______________________________________________________________________
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Received on Sat Mar 03 2012 - 22:47:18 ART