Re: OT: CCIE != PhD

I have a Bachelor's & a Master's in Computer Science. I also have multiple CCIE's (R/S, Security, SP, Voice, Storage). I am also a CCDE.

My personal opinion is that the two streams are different and really not comparable.

If you talk about the difficulty level, I found the CCIE tougher to get than my Degrees for the mere fact that your margin for error is very less. You need to pass the exam at 80%. In order to pass a class in college, your passing percentage was 60%. Which was not tough to do at all.

Having said that, the toughest exam that I have taken is definitely the CCDE exam. Much tougher than any CCIE exam or any college exam.

I agree with John in terms of a Phd being similar to the CCAr. That is because the formats are based on a thesis and backing it up in front of a panel.

Sent from my iPhone

On 03-Mar-2012, at 8:23 PM, John Smith <hsm_p_at_hotmail.com> wrote:

> Having a PhD from top school in US, working as a professor now and also
> CCIEx2, I must say that I disagreee with teh following (I don't have CCAr) >
> Associates (2 years) - CCxA *
>> Bachelors (4 years) - CCxP *
>> Masters (6 years) - CCIE *
>> PhD (8+ years) - CCAr
> You can say that the intellectual requirement for CCIE is similar to a second
> year in university. I would place CCxP and CCxA in Gr12 math or one course in
> first year level. However I must admit that the time/stress requirement for
> CCIE lab exam is more demanding than Bachelor/Masters/PhD. (the closest
> comparison is final exam for bachelor - there is not much time-crunching
> stress for graduate level) This is just my first hand experience. You are
> welcome to disagree if you have also been through all these. > From:
> niedentj_at_hotmail.com
>> To: ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
>> Subject: OT: CCIE != PhD
>> Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2012 20:46:42 -0800
>>
>> I usually don't speak out about this stuff however I have noticed way too
> many people comparing the CCIE to the PhD and quite frankly I find that an
> absurd comparison. Anyone who has worked on their Masters and PhD can attest
> to the rigor that is required for the PhD as well as the process involved and
> final goals. If you look at the CCIE it is a test that encompasses:
>>
>> - A CISCO specific technology line
>> - Each test set has a fixed set of possible exams that are updated and
> swapped time to time to avoid cheating
>> - Only requires configuration and troubleshooting - again, heavy Cisco
> specific focus
>> - Graded by a system, confirmed by a human
>> - 8 hours to prove that you have absorbed enough knowledge to configure
> things the Cisco way
>>
>>
>> The PhD is not this at all, in fact the PhD's main goal is for the student
> to learn enough about their area of interest so they can build a thesis, go
> out and scientifically research it and then DEFEND it and add to the body of
> human knowledge. While we all spend thousands of dollars, hundreds if not
> thousands of hours in labs / working and hours weekly responding to GS, with
> the CCIE we are not creating anything new for the body of human knowledge. I
> don't say this lightly as I know the vendors work hard on their materials
> however if you look at two of them side by side you will see many of the same
> configurations as that's the way Cisco programmed the IOS parser to handle the
> magic.
>>
>> There are key milestones in the PhD process / journey including:
>>
>> - Research classes
>> - Academic writing classes
>> - Colloquia
>> - Comps
>> - Thesis Research
>> - Thesis Dissertation
>> - Thesis Defense
>>
>> Keep in mind that most universities have a 2 times and then out policy -
> thus meaning if you fail your comps or defense twice, you are out. You have
> just spent 10's of thousands of dollars and years on your thesis and education
> and failed.
>>
>> In comparison, Cisco allows you to take the CCIE over and over and over and
> requires no original contribution to the field of
> networking/security/voice/SP, etc. This is just to gain revenue and ensure
> Cisco skilled workers in IT worldwide.
>>
>> As I see it, the closest thing to a PhD Cisco has now is the CCAr. While
> Cisco's path to making and expanding this program has been rather lengthy and
> slow, I do hope that they continue to push it. The Ar cannot be accomplished
> by just any testking and requires a defense. In addition it requires an
> initial response to questions, similar to comps, and they MUST be acceptable
> before moving on to the panel phase.
>>
>> So here's how I see it:
>>
>> Associates (2 years) - CCxA *
>> Bachelors (4 years) - CCxP *
>> Masters (6 years) - CCIE *
>> PhD (8+ years) - CCAr
>>
>> Good luck in your studies!
>>
>> Travis
>>
>>
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>>
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Received on Sat Mar 03 2012 - 20:49:00 ART