Re: CCIE

Good point with working visa. Here in Sydney folks staying on working
visas are getting usually less than average market rates.

A.

On 10/8/2011 9:54 AM, Jeff Fry wrote:
> I would add one word of caution, this is based on what you said about
> intracompany transfer and coming to the US. If you are here under a
> work-visa, I would look into what leaving the company means to that
> process. Some companies might not be willing to renew the visa -
> leaving you in a bad position when it expires; or you might have had
> some stipulations included with your visa when your company
> transferred you.
>
> With regards to the offer, do what is best for your family. If you
> listen to your heart, you wont go wrong.
>
> - Fryguy
>
> On 10/7/2011 2:51 PM, JB Poplawski wrote:
>> It's not an insult, this is business. You have a service the market
>> is willing to pay X. If you clearly know this, you're laying it out
>> there for your company to decide.
>>
>> Boils down to negotiating and sales.
>>
>> The issue by doing as you said David, is if your old company says,
>> "That's all you want, we'll have it done next week!" Now what do you
>> do? Stay at old, go to new, etc. You'll be better prepared if you
>> take action first to accept the "Please don't go, etc, etc." They
>> counter and you stay, your new company would be pissed.
>>
>> Honesty is the best policy, your old company won't fault you for
>> jumping and they'll appreciate the notice. Better prepared to find
>> someone else, etc.
>>
>> Either way, John let me/us know what happens. It'd be cool to here
>> how you handle this, etc.
>>
>> Cheers!
>> JB
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 1:43 PM, David Bass<davidbass570_at_gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> I agree with Joe...no way a company can even give that much of an
>>> increase if they wanted to. Most companies have limits on what size
>>> pay raise people can get. They would likely see it as an insult.
>>>
>>> If it were me I would put your notice in, and then if they ask tell
>>> them.
>>>
>>> My opinion though...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Oct 7, 2011, at 1:33 PM, Joe Astorino<joeastorino1982_at_gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hey that's cool JB, we all have our right to an opinion and you are
>>>> certainly no exception. I'm just speaking from my own personal
>>>> experiences
>>>> of the world which are of course very limited to my little world of
>>>> perceptions and things I have seen go down over the years.
>>>>
>>>> I would agree with you if we were talking about a few grand or 10 -
>>>> 15% even
>>>> but we are talking about 60% and $50,000 a year. In my experience,
>>>> holding
>>>> that in front of a company gets people let go or laughed at and
>>>> told good
>>>> luck. Again, that is just me. I've seen it happen more than once.
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 2:24 PM, JB
>>>> Poplawski<jb.poplawski_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Joe - You rock dude, but I can honestly disagree with you on this
>>>>> one.
>>>>> Get the offer letter from your potential company and hold that in
>>>>> your pocket. Or at least very close to the brink to that you're hired
>>>>> if you just say yes.
>>>>>
>>>>> John -
>>>>> Here's the conversation I could see transpiring...
>>>>> John: "Bill (HR/MGR Guy), thanks for meeting with me today.
>>>>> Unfortunately, I've hit a cross roads here at Company X. I've been
>>>>> approached by another firm for a base pay of $130K. I really like
>>>>> working here, but honestly you can see my dilemma. Is this something
>>>>> you can look into? I love the company and it would be a shame to
>>>>> leave, but a CCIE with 8 years experience commands a little more than
>>>>> my current salary, wouldn't you agree?"
>>>>> Bill: (HR/MGR Guy) "Well John, let me speak with Jane (Other
>>>>> decision maker) and see what we can do."
>>>>> John: "Sounds great, is it possible we can re-meet on Friday (1
>>>>> week from now).
>>>>> Bill: "Shouldn't be a problem."
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't condone doing this all the time, but if you don't fight for
>>>>> more $$$, nobody is going to hand it to you. This is a business,
>>>>> they
>>>>> can axe you at any time for no reason. Good luck trying to find a
>>>>> CCIE (with 8 years experience) for 80K.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's not fair to just up and leave your company when it's only based
>>>>> on money. You'd be surprised to find more companies would rather
>>>>> bump
>>>>> you in pay, versus frantically looking to replace you. Why? It
>>>>> costs
>>>>> way too much, training, recruiter fees, ramp up time, hiring a bad
>>>>> egg, etc. If you're a valuable asset to the firm, they'll keep you
>>>>> happy. If firms aren't paying market rate, they can expect to lose
>>>>> people because of that. If it's a partner, they're going to run into
>>>>> issues meeting Cisco requirements as well.
>>>>>
>>>>> I guess to recap, I would bring this issue up to the appropriate
>>>>> people (HR/Super/Manager) and explain the situation. Sometimes
>>>>> people
>>>>> need to be pushed (company wise) to really realize your serious about
>>>>> making your $$$, providing for your family and doing what it takes to
>>>>> get there.
>>>>>
>>>>> Like I said earlier though and I'll repeat, "DO NOT DO THIS UNLESS
>>>>> YOU'RE PREPARED TO LEAVE THAT DAY!". The dialogue above could go
>>>>> completely the wrong direction of "Sorry to hear that, pack up your
>>>>> things and leave". I *HIGHLY* doubt that, unless you're a CCIE that
>>>>> hangs out on the tubez and browses thechive.com all day. :)
>>>>>
>>>>> Never hurts to talk, and be *COMPLETELY* honest. Maybe they move you
>>>>> to 120K and everything stays the same? Maybe they move you to 140
>>>>> just to keep you from ever looking around.
>>>>>
>>>>> "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take" - Wayne Gretzky
>>>>>
>>>>> Hope this helps,
>>>>> JB
>>>>>
>>>>> PS - If this blows up in your face, don't come knocking on my
>>>>> door, my
>>>>> apartment is too small to house you and your family! LOL
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 12:41 PM, Joe
>>>>> Astorino<joeastorino1982_at_gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> I would stay away from the counter-offer "bribe". Your existing
>>>>>> company
>>>>>> will replace you as soon as they can with somebody cheaper. Counter
>>>>> offer
>>>>>> is generally never a good idea to take. It's unfortunate, but
>>>>>> hey man
>>>>> it's
>>>>>> brutal out there. Take care of you first.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 12:00 PM, JB
>>>>>> Poplawski<jb.poplawski_at_gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Ladies and Gentleman,
>>>>>>> This is why you get your CCIE!!! 140K/year can do a lot of things!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> John,
>>>>>>> Take a chance, you only live once! I would interview, get a formal
>>>>>>> offer and take it your old company. I've been here for X amount of
>>>>>>> years, I would love to stay, but how can you compete with this
>>>>>>> offer.
>>>>>>> It's worth a shot! Definitely don't play that card unless you're
>>>>>>> prepared to take the other position. You're using the new
>>>>>>> company's
>>>>>>> offer, but it boils down to putting up or shutting up.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Good convo and best of luck to you!
>>>>>>> JB
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 10:39 AM, Joe Astorino<
>>>>> joeastorino1982_at_gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Is the new position in the same area? Work from home is great,
>>>>>>>> but if
>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> could stay in the same area I was in, have great medical
>>>>>>>> benefits and
>>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>> 50k more to do similar work, that is a no brainer for me. Now,
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>> is
>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>> me -- You need to weigh your options. Is working from home
>>>>>>>> worth $50k
>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> year to you? What about work environment, hours, expectations,
>>>>> stress,
>>>>>>>> etc? Would the new job require you to put in way more hours
>>>>>>>> and time,
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> thus have less time for your personal goals (study, hobbies,
>>>>>>>> family,
>>>>>>>> etc)?
>>>>>>>> How much is that worth to you?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Good luck!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> P.S. I am not in the DC metro area but my opinion is that you are
>>>>> being
>>>>>>>> low
>>>>>>>> balled significantly.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 11:35 AM, John Bevan<john.bevan_at_ymail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks a lot for your inputs.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> To make things more clear I am currently getting 80K base + 10k
>>>>> Bonus.
>>>>>>>>> 70%
>>>>>>>>> of time I work from home and have stock options, medical benefit.
>>>>> Right
>>>>>>>>> now
>>>>>>>>> I am based in DC metro area. Offer what I am getting from
>>>>>>>>> consulting
>>>>>>>>> company
>>>>>>>>> is around 140K + health benefit.
>>>>>>>>> I am thinking 90k in DC metro Area for CCIE is low, that is a
>>>>>>>>> reason
>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> am
>>>>>>>>> thinking of changing. But due to other benefits with my present
>>>>>>>>> company, I
>>>>>>>>> am not able to make up my mind. That's the reason wanted to get
>>>>> inputs
>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>> experience of other folks how to go with it and what should I
>>>>>>>>> look
>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>> long terms.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>>> John.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>>>> *From:* Joe Astorino<joeastorino1982_at_gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> *To:* John Bevan<john.bevan_at_ymail.com>
>>>>>>>>> *Cc:* "ccielab_at_groupstudy.com"<ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
>>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, October 7, 2011 11:21 AM
>>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: CCIE
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It's all about balance man. Money is not everything, but it is
>>>>>>>>> important :
>>>>>>>>> ) With that being said, you have to weigh the entire
>>>>>>>>> package. How
>>>>>>>>> much is
>>>>>>>>> working for a great company worth to you? 50 - 60% of what
>>>>>>>>> you make?
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> would advise you look at the big picture to help you make a clear
>>>>>>>>> decision.
>>>>>>>>> Write stuff down. I was in a job hunt not too long ago
>>>>>>>>> myself. My
>>>>>>>>> decision
>>>>>>>>> on where to go was based on some of these things:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> - Base salary
>>>>>>>>> - Bonus potential
>>>>>>>>> - Medical / Health benefit package
>>>>>>>>> - Location
>>>>>>>>> - Stress Level of the job as compared to others (hours I would be
>>>>>>>>> working,
>>>>>>>>> how much the job challenged me, etc)
>>>>>>>>> - Family
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> All these things factor in. Now, 50-60% pay increase is going
>>>>>>>>> to be
>>>>>>>>> real
>>>>>>>>> tough for me to turn down personally. From experience, I
>>>>>>>>> think you
>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>> kidding yourself if you think your current company is going to
>>>>>>>>> eventually
>>>>>>>>> increase your pay by 50-60%. Maybe by the time you retire : )
>>>>>>>>> Companies
>>>>>>>>> that hire you in at a "low" wage will keep you there for
>>>>>>>>> eternity.
>>>>>>>>> When I
>>>>>>>>> went from CCNA to CCNP all the sudden the company wanted me to
>>>>>>>>> stop
>>>>>>>>> doing
>>>>>>>>> cable drop runs and start configuring core and distribution layer
>>>>>>>>> devices
>>>>>>>>> and work on complex topology designs, but guess what? They didn't
>>>>> want
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> pay for that. Why? They hired a CCNA for a low price. Just
>>>>>>>>> because
>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> got a
>>>>>>>>> CCNP didn't mean they were hiking my salary any more than the
>>>>>>>>> crappy
>>>>> 3%
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> year for living expenses. So, I moved on at the time. These are
>>>>>>>>> things you
>>>>>>>>> have to think about.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In summary, you need to look at the entire package and find
>>>>>>>>> out what
>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>> most important for you and what is best for you and your family.
>>>>>>>>> Additionally, I don't think any company is going to bump you that
>>>>> much
>>>>>>>>> in a
>>>>>>>>> short period of time.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> HTH
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 9:56 AM, John Bevan<john.bevan_at_ymail.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi folks,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I am confused about job change and want to know from the
>>>>>>>>> experience
>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> other folks who might have been through similar situation. I am a
>>>>> CCIE
>>>>>>>>> certified engineer working at Consulting engineer with the
>>>>>>>>> topmost(No
>>>>>>>>> prize
>>>>>>>>> for guessing) network company from last 5 years (having total
>>>>>>>>> 8 years
>>>>>>>>> experience). I came to US about a year back through intra-company
>>>>>>>>> transfer.
>>>>>>>>> Now my issues is that present company though is one of the best
>>>>> company
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> work for in networking industry but they are not paying me at
>>>>>>>>> level
>>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>>> experienced CCIE should be paid at(though a one of top most
>>>>> performer).
>>>>>>>>> Now
>>>>>>>>> I have few opportunities with some consulting companies in US
>>>>>>>>> who are
>>>>>>>>> ready
>>>>>>>>> to pay me 50-60% hike but these companies though good in
>>>>>>>>> consulting
>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>> at that level my present company is.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So my dilemma is that I am not able to decide if I should go
>>>>>>>>> for hike
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> leave my present company or instead of Salary I should remain
>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>> reputed
>>>>>>>>> company and wait for at-least 3-5 years more to reach this salary
>>>>> level
>>>>>>>>> being offered to me right now. So basically want comparison
>>>>>>>>> between
>>>>>>>>> salary
>>>>>>>>> level and company reputation.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Also what should be average good salary in US for CCIE with 8
>>>>>>>>> years
>>>>>>>>> experience, so that I can decide that if I am right now paid
>>>>>>>>> too low
>>>>> ?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks in advance for your inputs to help me clear my dilemma.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>> John
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Joe Astorino
>>>>>>>>> CCIE #24347
>>>>>>>>> Blog: http://astorinonetworks.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "He not busy being born is busy dying" - Dylan
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Joe Astorino
>>>>>>>> CCIE #24347
>>>>>>>> Blog: http://astorinonetworks.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "He not busy being born is busy dying" - Dylan
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>>>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Joe Astorino
>>>>>> CCIE #24347
>>>>>> Blog: http://astorinonetworks.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "He not busy being born is busy dying" - Dylan
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Joe Astorino
>>>> CCIE #24347
>>>> Blog: http://astorinonetworks.com
>>>>
>>>> "He not busy being born is busy dying" - Dylan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>
>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________________________________
>> Subscription information may be found at:
>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html

Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
Received on Fri Oct 21 2011 - 20:41:31 ART