Re: CCIE

I agree with Joe...no way a company can even give that much of an increase if they wanted to. Most companies have limits on what size pay raise people can get. They would likely see it as an insult.

If it were me I would put your notice in, and then if they ask tell them.

My opinion though...

On Oct 7, 2011, at 1:33 PM, Joe Astorino <joeastorino1982_at_gmail.com> wrote:

> Hey that's cool JB, we all have our right to an opinion and you are
> certainly no exception. I'm just speaking from my own personal experiences
> of the world which are of course very limited to my little world of
> perceptions and things I have seen go down over the years.
>
> I would agree with you if we were talking about a few grand or 10 - 15% even
> but we are talking about 60% and $50,000 a year. In my experience, holding
> that in front of a company gets people let go or laughed at and told good
> luck. Again, that is just me. I've seen it happen more than once.
>
> On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 2:24 PM, JB Poplawski <jb.poplawski_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Joe - You rock dude, but I can honestly disagree with you on this one.
>> Get the offer letter from your potential company and hold that in
>> your pocket. Or at least very close to the brink to that you're hired
>> if you just say yes.
>>
>> John -
>> Here's the conversation I could see transpiring...
>> John: "Bill (HR/MGR Guy), thanks for meeting with me today.
>> Unfortunately, I've hit a cross roads here at Company X. I've been
>> approached by another firm for a base pay of $130K. I really like
>> working here, but honestly you can see my dilemma. Is this something
>> you can look into? I love the company and it would be a shame to
>> leave, but a CCIE with 8 years experience commands a little more than
>> my current salary, wouldn't you agree?"
>> Bill: (HR/MGR Guy) "Well John, let me speak with Jane (Other
>> decision maker) and see what we can do."
>> John: "Sounds great, is it possible we can re-meet on Friday (1
>> week from now).
>> Bill: "Shouldn't be a problem."
>>
>> I don't condone doing this all the time, but if you don't fight for
>> more $$$, nobody is going to hand it to you. This is a business, they
>> can axe you at any time for no reason. Good luck trying to find a
>> CCIE (with 8 years experience) for 80K.
>>
>> It's not fair to just up and leave your company when it's only based
>> on money. You'd be surprised to find more companies would rather bump
>> you in pay, versus frantically looking to replace you. Why? It costs
>> way too much, training, recruiter fees, ramp up time, hiring a bad
>> egg, etc. If you're a valuable asset to the firm, they'll keep you
>> happy. If firms aren't paying market rate, they can expect to lose
>> people because of that. If it's a partner, they're going to run into
>> issues meeting Cisco requirements as well.
>>
>> I guess to recap, I would bring this issue up to the appropriate
>> people (HR/Super/Manager) and explain the situation. Sometimes people
>> need to be pushed (company wise) to really realize your serious about
>> making your $$$, providing for your family and doing what it takes to
>> get there.
>>
>> Like I said earlier though and I'll repeat, "DO NOT DO THIS UNLESS
>> YOU'RE PREPARED TO LEAVE THAT DAY!". The dialogue above could go
>> completely the wrong direction of "Sorry to hear that, pack up your
>> things and leave". I *HIGHLY* doubt that, unless you're a CCIE that
>> hangs out on the tubez and browses thechive.com all day. :)
>>
>> Never hurts to talk, and be *COMPLETELY* honest. Maybe they move you
>> to 120K and everything stays the same? Maybe they move you to 140
>> just to keep you from ever looking around.
>>
>> "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take" - Wayne Gretzky
>>
>> Hope this helps,
>> JB
>>
>> PS - If this blows up in your face, don't come knocking on my door, my
>> apartment is too small to house you and your family! LOL
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 12:41 PM, Joe Astorino <joeastorino1982_at_gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> I would stay away from the counter-offer "bribe". Your existing company
>>> will replace you as soon as they can with somebody cheaper. Counter
>> offer
>>> is generally never a good idea to take. It's unfortunate, but hey man
>> it's
>>> brutal out there. Take care of you first.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 12:00 PM, JB Poplawski <jb.poplawski_at_gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Ladies and Gentleman,
>>>> This is why you get your CCIE!!! 140K/year can do a lot of things!
>>>>
>>>> John,
>>>> Take a chance, you only live once! I would interview, get a formal
>>>> offer and take it your old company. I've been here for X amount of
>>>> years, I would love to stay, but how can you compete with this offer.
>>>> It's worth a shot! Definitely don't play that card unless you're
>>>> prepared to take the other position. You're using the new company's
>>>> offer, but it boils down to putting up or shutting up.
>>>>
>>>> Good convo and best of luck to you!
>>>> JB
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 10:39 AM, Joe Astorino <
>> joeastorino1982_at_gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Is the new position in the same area? Work from home is great, but if
>> I
>>>>> could stay in the same area I was in, have great medical benefits and
>>>>> get
>>>>> 50k more to do similar work, that is a no brainer for me. Now, that
>> is
>>>>> just
>>>>> me -- You need to weigh your options. Is working from home worth $50k
>> a
>>>>> year to you? What about work environment, hours, expectations,
>> stress,
>>>>> etc? Would the new job require you to put in way more hours and time,
>>>>> and
>>>>> thus have less time for your personal goals (study, hobbies, family,
>>>>> etc)?
>>>>> How much is that worth to you?
>>>>>
>>>>> Good luck!
>>>>>
>>>>> P.S. I am not in the DC metro area but my opinion is that you are
>> being
>>>>> low
>>>>> balled significantly.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 11:35 AM, John Bevan <john.bevan_at_ymail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks a lot for your inputs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To make things more clear I am currently getting 80K base + 10k
>> Bonus.
>>>>>> 70%
>>>>>> of time I work from home and have stock options, medical benefit.
>> Right
>>>>>> now
>>>>>> I am based in DC metro area. Offer what I am getting from consulting
>>>>>> company
>>>>>> is around 140K + health benefit.
>>>>>> I am thinking 90k in DC metro Area for CCIE is low, that is a reason
>> I
>>>>>> am
>>>>>> thinking of changing. But due to other benefits with my present
>>>>>> company, I
>>>>>> am not able to make up my mind. That's the reason wanted to get
>> inputs
>>>>>> from
>>>>>> experience of other folks how to go with it and what should I look
>> for
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> long terms.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>> John.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>> *From:* Joe Astorino <joeastorino1982_at_gmail.com>
>>>>>> *To:* John Bevan <john.bevan_at_ymail.com>
>>>>>> *Cc:* "ccielab_at_groupstudy.com" <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
>>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, October 7, 2011 11:21 AM
>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: CCIE
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's all about balance man. Money is not everything, but it is
>>>>>> important :
>>>>>> ) With that being said, you have to weigh the entire package. How
>>>>>> much is
>>>>>> working for a great company worth to you? 50 - 60% of what you make?
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> would advise you look at the big picture to help you make a clear
>>>>>> decision.
>>>>>> Write stuff down. I was in a job hunt not too long ago myself. My
>>>>>> decision
>>>>>> on where to go was based on some of these things:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Base salary
>>>>>> - Bonus potential
>>>>>> - Medical / Health benefit package
>>>>>> - Location
>>>>>> - Stress Level of the job as compared to others (hours I would be
>>>>>> working,
>>>>>> how much the job challenged me, etc)
>>>>>> - Family
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All these things factor in. Now, 50-60% pay increase is going to be
>>>>>> real
>>>>>> tough for me to turn down personally. From experience, I think you
>> are
>>>>>> kidding yourself if you think your current company is going to
>>>>>> eventually
>>>>>> increase your pay by 50-60%. Maybe by the time you retire : )
>>>>>> Companies
>>>>>> that hire you in at a "low" wage will keep you there for eternity.
>>>>>> When I
>>>>>> went from CCNA to CCNP all the sudden the company wanted me to stop
>>>>>> doing
>>>>>> cable drop runs and start configuring core and distribution layer
>>>>>> devices
>>>>>> and work on complex topology designs, but guess what? They didn't
>> want
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> pay for that. Why? They hired a CCNA for a low price. Just because
>> I
>>>>>> got a
>>>>>> CCNP didn't mean they were hiking my salary any more than the crappy
>> 3%
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> year for living expenses. So, I moved on at the time. These are
>>>>>> things you
>>>>>> have to think about.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In summary, you need to look at the entire package and find out what
>> is
>>>>>> most important for you and what is best for you and your family.
>>>>>> Additionally, I don't think any company is going to bump you that
>> much
>>>>>> in a
>>>>>> short period of time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> HTH
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 9:56 AM, John Bevan <john.bevan_at_ymail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi folks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am confused about job change and want to know from the experience
>> of
>>>>>> other folks who might have been through similar situation. I am a
>> CCIE
>>>>>> certified engineer working at Consulting engineer with the topmost(No
>>>>>> prize
>>>>>> for guessing) network company from last 5 years (having total 8 years
>>>>>> experience). I came to US about a year back through intra-company
>>>>>> transfer.
>>>>>> Now my issues is that present company though is one of the best
>> company
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> work for in networking industry but they are not paying me at level
>>>>>> what
>>>>>> experienced CCIE should be paid at(though a one of top most
>> performer).
>>>>>> Now
>>>>>> I have few opportunities with some consulting companies in US who are
>>>>>> ready
>>>>>> to pay me 50-60% hike but these companies though good in consulting
>> but
>>>>>> not
>>>>>> at that level my present company is.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So my dilemma is that I am not able to decide if I should go for hike
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> leave my present company or instead of Salary I should remain with
>>>>>> reputed
>>>>>> company and wait for at-least 3-5 years more to reach this salary
>> level
>>>>>> being offered to me right now. So basically want comparison between
>>>>>> salary
>>>>>> level and company reputation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also what should be average good salary in US for CCIE with 8 years
>>>>>> experience, so that I can decide that if I am right now paid too low
>> ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks in advance for your inputs to help me clear my dilemma.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> John
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Joe Astorino
>>>>>> CCIE #24347
>>>>>> Blog: http://astorinonetworks.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "He not busy being born is busy dying" - Dylan
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Joe Astorino
>>>>> CCIE #24347
>>>>> Blog: http://astorinonetworks.com
>>>>>
>>>>> "He not busy being born is busy dying" - Dylan
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>>>
>>>>>
>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Joe Astorino
>>> CCIE #24347
>>> Blog: http://astorinonetworks.com
>>>
>>> "He not busy being born is busy dying" - Dylan
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Regards,
>
> Joe Astorino
> CCIE #24347
> Blog: http://astorinonetworks.com
>
> "He not busy being born is busy dying" - Dylan
>
>
> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> Subscription information may be found at:
> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html

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Received on Fri Oct 07 2011 - 13:43:13 ART