Re: Company want CCIE, but they don't support my efforts

Yeah I agree up to a point. I would still rather make more and pay for
training if the amount is substantially more than the training/certification
costs.

On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 4:46 PM, David Bass <davidbass570_at_gmail.com> wrote:

> I have to agree with the rest. I've always put the job first and the cert
> a distant 2nd because it was never valued by my employers. It's worth it to
> your careers to go somewhere that appreciates it and will pay. I've only
> recently found someplace that does value it, and is willing to contribute
> time and money (time being the most critical).
>
>
>
> On Sep 12, 2011, at 6:14 PM, marc edwards <renorider_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > So let me interject one thought to the discussion. I recently switched
> jobs
> > because of this reason... There was a gross undervaluing of my efforts. I
> > was lucky to get many offers from both Cisco, a large partner services re
> > seller, and a non services partner who needed a solid network engineer.
> We
> > all know what Cisco will offer. 3 free tests out of the gate and they
> were
> > ready to reimburse me and set up training program to continue R & S also
> > moving into data center technologies. The partner also offered paid
> training
> > and reimbursement. The latter offered the most money and supports me by
> > supplying rack rental time. Training for the non service pertner was
> > presented as job specific mostly security, load balancing focused and not
> > specific to the R & S pursuit but pertinent to day to day role and
> upcoming
> > projects.
> >
> > I ended up taking the latter because they offered the most money... When
> it
> > comes down to it, at any of these jobs, I couldn't get away with
> > not fulfilling my priorities/ daily requests because I had to study on
> the
> > clock. There is a balance with this that has to come after work. I see it
> > like home work similar to what I have done in high school, college, and
> for
> > other certs.
> >
> > I do feel that I am supported now. I do feel encouraged. I know that if
> my
> > next attmept busts, work will sponsor another chance. They see how it
> helps
> > speed mean time to resolution of incidents but they are also focussing on
> > more than just Cisco. I do have to say that don't lose focus of what it
> is
> > you do. We are not getting paid to study. We get paid to fix, enhance,
> and
> > engineer better networks/systems etc.
> >
> > I agree completely that if you are unhappy with a job and there is no
> > support. Time to move on but don't jump ship just becuase you are not
> > getting exactly what you want. Especially if the pay is pretty good. My
> two
> > cents.
> >
> > Marc
> >
> > On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 3:51 PM, Jay McMickle <jay.mcmickle_at_yahoo.com
> >wrote:
> >
> >> Well said, Joe!
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Jay McMickle- CCNP,CCSP,CCDP
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >> http://mycciepursuit.wordpress.com
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sep 12, 2011, at 11:40 AM, Joe Astorino <joeastorino1982_at_gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I was in a similar situation. I will offer some advice, but remember
> it
> >> is
> >>> worth what you paid for it : ) In 2008 I began studying hardcore for
> my
> >> lab
> >>> exam. I went to my employer and put up a very reasonable argument as
> to
> >> why
> >>> they would benefit from a CCIE on staff, and asked that they back me
> >>> financially in that endeavor. I even wrote a page long letter to the
> CIO
> >>> explaining the benefits and outlining the costs involved, etc.
> >>>
> >>> They essentially said "we want you focused on doing your job, not
> >> studying.
> >>> A CCNP is all we need, and we won't pay for a CCIE." At that point I
> >>> realized something important to me -- The company did not value
> >> technology
> >>> and they did not value expertise in that area. If I did get my CCIE
> >> working
> >>> there, it sure would not come with a raise. They also knew I would
> >> probably
> >>> leave and go make more $ somewhere else.
> >>>
> >>> As soon as they said "that's nice but do it on your own time" I decided
> >> to
> >>> start looking for another job. I set out to find a place that valued
> >>> technology and valued high end certifications like the CCIE. Within a
> >> few
> >>> months I got an offer working as a contractor for Cisco, along with a
> >> $25k
> >>> increase....and I was still working on my CCIE.
> >>>
> >>> The point is this -- If they won't pay for it, they don't value it.
> Money
> >>> talks. If they don't value what you are doing now, they won't value it
> >> when
> >>> you get the CCIE either. They will also know you are valuable and it
> >>> wouldn't surprise me if they are already trying to figure out how to
> >> replace
> >>> you cheaper. Companies are ruthless. Look out for yourself, and start
> >>> looking for a place that will support you in your dreams
> >>>
> >>> My 2 cents
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 11:19 AM, Radioactive Frog <
> pbhatkoti_at_gmail.com
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Job hunt is the answer- find a company that is willing to pay your
> exam
> >>>> cost. To be able to get this, I think you need to offer these type of
> >>>> company more than just the "regular" skill-set.
> >>>> Not just the RnS but like Vmware, security and other skill set
> upfront.
> >>>>
> >>>> $20k is huge.. buy shares and in 6 months they might go up by 50% :)
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 9:36 PM, Calin C. <calin_at_engineer.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Thanks for your opinion,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I don't feel that it's mandatory to attend a bootcamp. The work
> >>>> environment
> >>>>> is pretty challenging and combined with my spare time practice will
> be
> >> a
> >>>>> pretty good hands-on support for my lab exam.
> >>>>> The bootcamp came into discussion with my company as they inquire
> about
> >>>> my
> >>>>> ongoing preparation with CCIE.
> >>>>> They didn't want to pay for my rack equipments (which I paid by my
> own)
> >>>> so
> >>>>> I've suggested them to pay for a bootcamp (the lower cost one, aprox.
> >>>> 2.200
> >>>>> euro).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Reading your suggestions now, I took the decision to continue on my
> >> own,
> >>>>> with my own rack and I'll buy the workbooks from a ccie training
> >> provider
> >>>> (I
> >>>>> don't want to give the name to start a flame discussion about which
> is
> >>>>> best). I'll try the next 3 months to prepare hard and then if I'm not
> >>>> happy
> >>>>> with my progress I'll check for a bootcamp of 5 days (if there will
> be
> >>>> any
> >>>>> available in Europe, to reduce travel costs). I have no doubt that a
> >>>>> bootcamp can add valuable know-how, but right now the above approach
> >> fit
> >>>>> best my needs and the costs are acceptable.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Cheers,
> >>>>> Calin
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>> From: farhan.anwar_at_gmail.com
> >>>>>> Sent: 09/12/11 01:14 PM
> >>>>>> To: shiran guez, Calin C.
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: Company want CCIE, but they don't support my efforts
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Calin,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I did my CCIE by utilising online bootcamps and mock labs that are
> >>>>> offered from many vendors. Save on the travelling and hotel costs,
> take
> >>>> the
> >>>>> online bootcamp from your home, if you feel you need it.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> HTH,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Farhan Anwar
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Sent from my BlackBerryB. smartphone from du
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> From: shiran guez <shiranp3_at_gmail.com>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Sender: nobody_at_groupstudy.com
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 12:43:03
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> To: Calin C.<calin_at_engineer.com>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Reply-To: shiran guez <shiranp3_at_gmail.com>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Cc: <daniel.dib_at_reaper.nu>; <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: Company want CCIE, but they don't support my efforts
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 20K Euro is a lot of money, a boot-camp will speed your process to
> >>>> become
> >>>>> a
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> CCIE but is it worth 20K I think it depends who need it and how fast
> >>>> when
> >>>>> a
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Cisco Partner need a CCIE and he decide to promote one of his
> workers
> >>>> he
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> will send them to boot-camp because it is fast and he will get
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> the investment back relativly fast, however if you personally doing
> it
> >>>> I
> >>>>> am
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> not sure you are going to pay back your investment that fast.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I have done my CCIE without boot-camp' in total including
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> learning martial labs transatlantic flights 2 attempts and hotel's
> it
> >>>>> cost
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> me ~7000USD may be a little less.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> good luck
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 12:16 PM, Calin C. <calin_at_engineer.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Hello Daniel,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> "...but if
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> B the CCIE does nothing for them..."
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Maybe I have to add some clarification. I'm being sold by my hiring
> >>>>> company
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> as a consultant (or external partner) to other companies. Maybe I'm
> >>>> not
> >>>>> into
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> marketing stuff, but I think selling a CCIE worth more than selling
> a
> >>>>> CCNP /
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> CCIP :)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> So, event if they don't have a plan to go further on with Cisco
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> partnership, I think they will gain something from my increased
> >>>>> knowledge.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Thanks for reply!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Cheers,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Calin
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> From: daniel.dib_at_reaper.nu
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Sent: 09/12/11 11:02 AM
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> To: ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Company want CCIE, but they don't support my efforts
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Mon, 12 Sep 2011 04:09:08 -0400, Calin C. wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Hello all,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I have here an ethical problem, more than a technical one and I
> >>>>> said
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> to ask you guys, maybe somebody can give me an advice.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Scenario is the following.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> For some time now I've been preparing for CCIE entirely on my own
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> costs (learning in my spare time, rack rental / equipment
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> acquisition,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> exam fee, accomodation, travel...).I sit to an exam a while ago
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> (about
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> a year) and fail. Came back home and start preparing again.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Now I want to sit to another lab in some months and I was
> >>>> thinking
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> that maybe a bootcamp will help. I've ask around some friends and
> >>>>> one
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> of them confirmed that he was in a bootcamp (company name not
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> important, location Germany) and costs were about 20.000 euro ( 3
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> weeks bootcamp, accomodation, travel...). This is a lot of money
> >>>>> for
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> me and I was thinking to ask my company to support me. I've found
> >>>> a
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> cheaper bootcamp (5 days around 2.200 euro + accomodation and
> >>>>> travel,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> let's say up to 3.500 euro). I've presented the above numbers to
> >>>> my
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> company and their answer was that they are willing to support me,
> >>>>> but
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> only for the efective cost of the exam itself.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Maybe it's important to say that I have other certifications
> >>>> (CCNP,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> CCIP, CXFS...) which are registered to my company for Cisco
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> partnership.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Finally we arrive to my issue:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I will keep on supporting my way to CCIE on my own costs (let's
> >>>> say
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> that the 5 days bootcamp I could afford to pay by my own, or buy
> >>>>> the
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> workbooks and practice on my own rack). I this case, my question
> >>>>> is,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> if I will get a CCIE number, this will be automatically assigned
> >>>> to
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> the company that I'm registered with? I've tried to explain to
> >>>> them
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> that if this is the case, I would find it a little bit unfair to
> >>>>> use
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> my number. The cost of the exam itself is nothing compared to the
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> rest
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> of efforts.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Please don't get me wrong. I'm fully satisfied with the company
> >>>>> that
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I'm working on and I don't want to leave it. From financial and
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> social
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> perspective I'm happy with my position. I just want them to
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> understand
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> that nothing in life is free and CCIE comes with a costs that I
> >>>>> have
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> to either recover somehow or they need to sponsor my efforts.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Any input will be appreciated (especially to my question about
> >>>> CCIE
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> number - company relationship).
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Thanks for reading this long e-mail!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Calin
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> B Use the Partner Self Service tool available from the Partner
> >>>> portal
> >>>>> to
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> B see if you are assigned to a company. If you are then I suppose
> >>>> the
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> CCIE
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> B will automatically be accredited to that company. Going to a 20k
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> B bootcamp seems like a waste, many people do pass the lab without
> >>>> a
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> B bootcamp. If you want to go to one go for one that is for a
> week.
> >>>>> That
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> B should be enough. Does your company need your CCIE to acheive a
> >>>>> certain
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> B partner level? Maybe they don't and then they are not that
> >>>>> interested
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> in
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> B paying for it? They should still pay you for the competence and
> >>>>> skills
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> B you have achieved when becoming a CCIE through a higher salary
> >>>> but
> >>>>> if
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> B the CCIE does nothing for them partnerwise maybe they are
> >>>> reluctant
> >>>>> to
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> B pay costs for it. Just trying to get a grip of your situation.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> B /Daniel
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Shiran Guez
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> MCSE CCNP NCE1 JNCIA-ENT JNCIS-ENT CCIE #20572
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> http://cciep3.blogspot.com
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/cciep3
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> http://twitter.com/cciep3
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >> _______________________________________________________________________
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> >>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
> >>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >>>>
> >>>>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> >>>> Subscription information may be found at:
> >>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Regards,
> >>>
> >>> Joe Astorino
> >>> CCIE #24347
> >>> Blog: http://astorinonetworks.com
> >>>
> >>> "He not busy being born is busy dying" - Dylan
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________________________________
> >>> Subscription information may be found at:
> >>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> >>
> >>
> >> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________________________________
> >> Subscription information may be found at:
> >> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> >
> >
> > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >
> > _______________________________________________________________________
> > Subscription information may be found at:
> > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html

Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
Received on Mon Sep 12 2011 - 18:09:40 ART