Re: Company want CCIE, but they don't support my efforts

Well said, Joe!

Regards,
Jay McMickle- CCNP,CCSP,CCDP
Sent from my iPhone
http://mycciepursuit.wordpress.com

On Sep 12, 2011, at 11:40 AM, Joe Astorino <joeastorino1982_at_gmail.com> wrote:

> I was in a similar situation. I will offer some advice, but remember it is
> worth what you paid for it : ) In 2008 I began studying hardcore for my lab
> exam. I went to my employer and put up a very reasonable argument as to why
> they would benefit from a CCIE on staff, and asked that they back me
> financially in that endeavor. I even wrote a page long letter to the CIO
> explaining the benefits and outlining the costs involved, etc.
>
> They essentially said "we want you focused on doing your job, not studying.
> A CCNP is all we need, and we won't pay for a CCIE." At that point I
> realized something important to me -- The company did not value technology
> and they did not value expertise in that area. If I did get my CCIE working
> there, it sure would not come with a raise. They also knew I would probably
> leave and go make more $ somewhere else.
>
> As soon as they said "that's nice but do it on your own time" I decided to
> start looking for another job. I set out to find a place that valued
> technology and valued high end certifications like the CCIE. Within a few
> months I got an offer working as a contractor for Cisco, along with a $25k
> increase....and I was still working on my CCIE.
>
> The point is this -- If they won't pay for it, they don't value it. Money
> talks. If they don't value what you are doing now, they won't value it when
> you get the CCIE either. They will also know you are valuable and it
> wouldn't surprise me if they are already trying to figure out how to replace
> you cheaper. Companies are ruthless. Look out for yourself, and start
> looking for a place that will support you in your dreams
>
> My 2 cents
>
> On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 11:19 AM, Radioactive Frog <pbhatkoti_at_gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Job hunt is the answer- find a company that is willing to pay your exam
>> cost. To be able to get this, I think you need to offer these type of
>> company more than just the "regular" skill-set.
>> Not just the RnS but like Vmware, security and other skill set upfront.
>>
>> $20k is huge.. buy shares and in 6 months they might go up by 50% :)
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 9:36 PM, Calin C. <calin_at_engineer.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for your opinion,
>>>
>>> I don't feel that it's mandatory to attend a bootcamp. The work
>> environment
>>> is pretty challenging and combined with my spare time practice will be a
>>> pretty good hands-on support for my lab exam.
>>> The bootcamp came into discussion with my company as they inquire about
>> my
>>> ongoing preparation with CCIE.
>>> They didn't want to pay for my rack equipments (which I paid by my own)
>> so
>>> I've suggested them to pay for a bootcamp (the lower cost one, aprox.
>> 2.200
>>> euro).
>>>
>>> Reading your suggestions now, I took the decision to continue on my own,
>>> with my own rack and I'll buy the workbooks from a ccie training provider
>> (I
>>> don't want to give the name to start a flame discussion about which is
>>> best). I'll try the next 3 months to prepare hard and then if I'm not
>> happy
>>> with my progress I'll check for a bootcamp of 5 days (if there will be
>> any
>>> available in Europe, to reduce travel costs). I have no doubt that a
>>> bootcamp can add valuable know-how, but right now the above approach fit
>>> best my needs and the costs are acceptable.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Calin
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: farhan.anwar_at_gmail.com
>>>> Sent: 09/12/11 01:14 PM
>>>> To: shiran guez, Calin C.
>>>> Subject: Re: Company want CCIE, but they don't support my efforts
>>>>
>>>> Calin,
>>>>
>>>> I did my CCIE by utilising online bootcamps and mock labs that are
>>> offered from many vendors. Save on the travelling and hotel costs, take
>> the
>>> online bootcamp from your home, if you feel you need it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> HTH,
>>>>
>>>> Farhan Anwar
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my BlackBerryB. smartphone from du
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>
>>>> From: shiran guez <shiranp3_at_gmail.com>
>>>>
>>>> Sender: nobody_at_groupstudy.com
>>>>
>>>> Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 12:43:03
>>>>
>>>> To: Calin C.<calin_at_engineer.com>
>>>>
>>>> Reply-To: shiran guez <shiranp3_at_gmail.com>
>>>>
>>>> Cc: <daniel.dib_at_reaper.nu>; <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
>>>>
>>>> Subject: Re: Company want CCIE, but they don't support my efforts
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 20K Euro is a lot of money, a boot-camp will speed your process to
>> become
>>> a
>>>>
>>>> CCIE but is it worth 20K I think it depends who need it and how fast
>> when
>>> a
>>>>
>>>> Cisco Partner need a CCIE and he decide to promote one of his workers
>> he
>>>>
>>>> will send them to boot-camp because it is fast and he will get
>>>>
>>>> the investment back relativly fast, however if you personally doing it
>> I
>>> am
>>>>
>>>> not sure you are going to pay back your investment that fast.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have done my CCIE without boot-camp' in total including
>>>>
>>>> learning martial labs transatlantic flights 2 attempts and hotel's it
>>> cost
>>>>
>>>> me ~7000USD may be a little less.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> good luck
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 12:16 PM, Calin C. <calin_at_engineer.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hello Daniel,
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> "...but if
>>>>
>>>>>> B the CCIE does nothing for them..."
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Maybe I have to add some clarification. I'm being sold by my hiring
>>> company
>>>>
>>>>> as a consultant (or external partner) to other companies. Maybe I'm
>> not
>>> into
>>>>
>>>>> marketing stuff, but I think selling a CCIE worth more than selling a
>>> CCNP /
>>>>
>>>>> CCIP :)
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> So, event if they don't have a plan to go further on with Cisco
>>>>
>>>>> partnership, I think they will gain something from my increased
>>> knowledge.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for reply!
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>>> Calin
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>
>>>>>> From: daniel.dib_at_reaper.nu
>>>>
>>>>>> Sent: 09/12/11 11:02 AM
>>>>
>>>>>> To: ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
>>>>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Company want CCIE, but they don't support my efforts
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, 12 Sep 2011 04:09:08 -0400, Calin C. wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> I have here an ethical problem, more than a technical one and I
>>> said
>>>>
>>>>>>> to ask you guys, maybe somebody can give me an advice.
>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> Scenario is the following.
>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> For some time now I've been preparing for CCIE entirely on my own
>>>>
>>>>>>> costs (learning in my spare time, rack rental / equipment
>>>>
>>>>>>> acquisition,
>>>>
>>>>>>> exam fee, accomodation, travel...).I sit to an exam a while ago
>>>>
>>>>>>> (about
>>>>
>>>>>>> a year) and fail. Came back home and start preparing again.
>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> Now I want to sit to another lab in some months and I was
>> thinking
>>>>
>>>>>>> that maybe a bootcamp will help. I've ask around some friends and
>>> one
>>>>
>>>>>>> of them confirmed that he was in a bootcamp (company name not
>>>>
>>>>>>> important, location Germany) and costs were about 20.000 euro ( 3
>>>>
>>>>>>> weeks bootcamp, accomodation, travel...). This is a lot of money
>>> for
>>>>
>>>>>>> me and I was thinking to ask my company to support me. I've found
>> a
>>>>
>>>>>>> cheaper bootcamp (5 days around 2.200 euro + accomodation and
>>> travel,
>>>>
>>>>>>> let's say up to 3.500 euro). I've presented the above numbers to
>> my
>>>>
>>>>>>> company and their answer was that they are willing to support me,
>>> but
>>>>
>>>>>>> only for the efective cost of the exam itself.
>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> Maybe it's important to say that I have other certifications
>> (CCNP,
>>>>
>>>>>>> CCIP, CXFS...) which are registered to my company for Cisco
>>>>
>>>>>>> partnership.
>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> Finally we arrive to my issue:
>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> I will keep on supporting my way to CCIE on my own costs (let's
>> say
>>>>
>>>>>>> that the 5 days bootcamp I could afford to pay by my own, or buy
>>> the
>>>>
>>>>>>> workbooks and practice on my own rack). I this case, my question
>>> is,
>>>>
>>>>>>> if I will get a CCIE number, this will be automatically assigned
>> to
>>>>
>>>>>>> the company that I'm registered with? I've tried to explain to
>> them
>>>>
>>>>>>> that if this is the case, I would find it a little bit unfair to
>>> use
>>>>
>>>>>>> my number. The cost of the exam itself is nothing compared to the
>>>>
>>>>>>> rest
>>>>
>>>>>>> of efforts.
>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> Please don't get me wrong. I'm fully satisfied with the company
>>> that
>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm working on and I don't want to leave it. From financial and
>>>>
>>>>>>> social
>>>>
>>>>>>> perspective I'm happy with my position. I just want them to
>>>>
>>>>>>> understand
>>>>
>>>>>>> that nothing in life is free and CCIE comes with a costs that I
>>> have
>>>>
>>>>>>> to either recover somehow or they need to sponsor my efforts.
>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> Any input will be appreciated (especially to my question about
>> CCIE
>>>>
>>>>>>> number - company relationship).
>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks for reading this long e-mail!
>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> Calin
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> B Use the Partner Self Service tool available from the Partner
>> portal
>>> to
>>>>
>>>>>> B see if you are assigned to a company. If you are then I suppose
>> the
>>>>
>>>>> CCIE
>>>>
>>>>>> B will automatically be accredited to that company. Going to a 20k
>>>>
>>>>>> B bootcamp seems like a waste, many people do pass the lab without
>> a
>>>>
>>>>>> B bootcamp. If you want to go to one go for one that is for a week.
>>> That
>>>>
>>>>>> B should be enough. Does your company need your CCIE to acheive a
>>> certain
>>>>
>>>>>> B partner level? Maybe they don't and then they are not that
>>> interested
>>>>
>>>>> in
>>>>
>>>>>> B paying for it? They should still pay you for the competence and
>>> skills
>>>>
>>>>>> B you have achieved when becoming a CCIE through a higher salary
>> but
>>> if
>>>>
>>>>>> B the CCIE does nothing for them partnerwise maybe they are
>> reluctant
>>> to
>>>>
>>>>>> B pay costs for it. Just trying to get a grip of your situation.
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> B /Daniel
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Shiran Guez
>>>>
>>>> MCSE CCNP NCE1 JNCIA-ENT JNCIS-ENT CCIE #20572
>>>>
>>>> http://cciep3.blogspot.com
>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
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>>
>
>
> --
> Regards,
>
> Joe Astorino
> CCIE #24347
> Blog: http://astorinonetworks.com
>
> "He not busy being born is busy dying" - Dylan
>
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Received on Mon Sep 12 2011 - 18:51:25 ART