Re: shape on 3560

From: Marko Milivojevic <markom_at_ipexpert.com>
Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 12:46:01 -0700

OK so you think it behaves luke CBWFQ in that regard? That nakes sense, but... this can lead to underutilization of the resources.

Yeah this is so much fun :-). Endless! :-)

--
Marko Milivojevic - CCIE #18427
Senior Technical Instructor - IPexpert
Free CCIE Training: http://bit.ly/vLecture
Mailto: markom_at_ipexpert.com
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:: Sent from my phone. Apologies for errors and brevity. ::
On Aug 7, 2011, at 12:43, Paul Negron <negron.paul_at_gmail.com> wrote:
> You raise a valid point. I believe after having this discussion with
> Wendell, we agreed that the traffic that could not be sent into a time
> interval was sent in the next time interval.
> 
> I believe I had this discussion with Narbik some time ago as well.
> 
> I agree.:-)
> QOS provides only more questions that is not backed up by documentation.
> 
> It has been a subject that has occupied my time since I worked on StrataCom
> gear, some years back.
> 
> Enjoy the scenery man!!!!
> 
> Paul
> -- 
> Paul Negron
> CCIE# 14856 CCSI# 22752
> Senior Technical Instructor
> 
> 
> 
>> From: Marko Milivojevic <markom_at_ipexpert.com>
>> Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 12:30:04 -0700
>> To: Paul Negron <negron.paul_at_gmail.com>
>> Cc: gp <gs4me2me_at_gmail.com>, Carlos G Mendioroz <tron_at_huapi.ba.ar>,
>> <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
>> Subject: Re: shape on 3560
>> 
>> Addition of PQ on Cats completely messes things up for other queues
>> and understanding what happens in them.
>> 
>> Even without PQ in the mix, Carlos raises a valid question. Alas, one
>> which is impossible to answer.
>> 
>> He's right in saying that shaped queues get a priority in comparison
>> to shared. However, this priority is only reflected in the bandwidth
>> allocation part. They carve up the total available bandwidth. Whatever
>> is left for allocation after shaped queues is carved up by shared
>> queues.
>> 
>> Now, when it comes to dequeueing part, this is when things are truly
>> interesting. Carlos mentioned a case when the whole port is
>> oversubscribed and suggested how the queues will be used. I agree and
>> very much disagree with what he wrote. The problem is - it all depends
>> on several things a) time interval; b) number of packets in each
>> queue; c) size of each individual packet.
>> 
>> Remember the old CIR = Bc / Tc formula. Well, it still applies. We can
>> only send so many bytes in each time interval to satisfy to total
>> transmission rate.
>> 
>> Now, what happens when we oversubscribe the port *and* the queues.
>> Will packet be transmitted if there are available tokens in the
>> bucket, but not enough to send the packet? In, for example CQ, the
>> answer is yes. in CBWFQ and HQF, the answer is no. How about SRR?
>> Cisco doesn't document this (at least I couldn't find it), but this is
>> important. Now, what happens if, for example, we run out of bytes in
>> an interval to send due to dequeueing method used... Where does the
>> next interval start? Q1, or the next queue where the previous interval
>> stopped? Again, something Cisco doesn't document, but is rather
>> important.
>> 
>> Analyzing QoS is immensely fun topic to me. I think it's an essence of
>> networking, but I'll stop now :-). I have some wonderful sequoia trees
>> to see!
>> 
>> --
>> Marko Milivojevic - CCIE #18427
>> Senior Technical Instructor - IPexpert
>> 
>> FREE CCIE training: http://bit.ly/vLecture
>> 
>> Mailto: markom_at_ipexpert.com
>> Telephone: +1.810.326.1444
>> Web: http://www.ipexpert.com/
>> 
>> On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 12:04, Paul Negron <negron.paul_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I agree with Marko on this one.
>>> 
>>> The Delay cannot be verified to be 40/30/30 since you cannot measure how
>>> many packets from the Priority Q are actually being serviced in relation to
>>> the WFQ scheduler that only spits out one packet at a time.
>>> 
>>> Also, what delay are you referencing for a 40/30/30 share. Queuing delay
>>> only?
>>> 
>>> What about CPU, Serialization which change pending the packet size. Sure,
>>> Serialization delay is almost non-existent with Ethernet designs but it is
>>> still there. Thus, you cannot guarantee effective throughput.
>>> 
>>> Paul
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Paul Negron
>>> CCIE# 14856 CCSI# 22752
>>> Senior Technical Instructor
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> From: gp <gs4me2me_at_gmail.com>
>>>> Reply-To: gp <gs4me2me_at_gmail.com>
>>>> Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 20:16:40 +0200
>>>> To: 'Carlos G Mendioroz' <tron_at_huapi.ba.ar>, 'Marko Milivojevic'
>>>> <markom_at_ipexpert.com>
>>>> Cc: <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
>>>> Subject: RE: shape on 3560
>>>> 
>>>> So queue which is shaped has guaranteed bandwidth in relation to shared
>>>> queues?
>>>> 
>>>> Gp
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Carlos G Mendioroz [mailto:tron_at_huapi.ba.ar]
>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2011 8:05 PM
>>>> To: Marko Milivojevic
>>>> Cc: gp; <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: shape on 3560
>>>> 
>>>> Marko,
>>>> you say that all queues have guaranteed BW but not delay.
>>>> I don't fully understand that.
>>>> 
>>>> Are you saying that the delay for a packet of some class is not bounded?
>>>> If not, delay is also guaranteed.
>>>> 
>>>> If you have 3 queues, one with 50Mb shape and the other two 1/3 the BW
>>>> on a 100 Mb link, anything below congestion (and below 50Mb) will be
>>>> just served, but if the 3 queues try to get 40Mb, what will be the
>>>> effective throughput of each ?
>>>> I would say 40/30/30.
>>>> 
>>>> -Carlos
>>>> 
>>>> Marko Milivojevic @ 07/08/2011 14:22 -0300 dixit:
>>>>> All queues are guaranteed bandwidth, but not the delay. SRR is round-robin
>>>>> alghoritm. Shaped queues are assigned bandwidth first and whatever remains
>>>>> is
>>>>> used by shared queues, but servicing the data in queues is always equal
>>>>> between all the queues.
>>>>> 
>>>>> When you enable PQ, Q1 is serviced until empty and only then Q2-4 are
>>>>> processed according to the SRR configuration and remaining bandwidth in the
>>>>> time interval.
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> Marko Milivojevic - CCIE #18427
>>>>> Senior Technical Instructor - IPexpert
>>>>> 
>>>>> Free CCIE Training: http://bit.ly/vLecture
>>>>> 
>>>>> Mailto: markom_at_ipexpert.com
>>>>> Telephone: +1.810.326.1444
>>>>> Community: http://www.ipexpert.com/communities
>>>>> 
>>>>> :: Sent from my phone. Apologies for errors and brevity. ::
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Aug 7, 2011, at 2:42, "gp" <gs4me2me_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> I read somewhere that shaped queue is processed before shared.
>>>>>> Unfortunately
>>>>>> cannot find it:)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Is it possible to guaranteed some traffic bandwidth to be processed before
>>>>>> other with limit in task that it cannot be mapped in priority queue
>>>>>> because
>>>>>> some other traffic more important is mapped to priority queue?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> For example:
>>>>>> Q1 - traffic X - priority
>>>>>> Q2 - traffic XY - less important than traffic X, more important than
>>>>>> traffic
>>>>>> XYZ
>>>>>> Q3&Q4 - traffic XYZ
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> Gp
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Marko Milivojevic [mailto:markom_at_ipexpert.com]
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2011 10:46 PM
>>>>>> To: gp
>>>>>> Cc: ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
>>>>>> Subject: Re: shape on 3560
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sharing and shaping has nothing to do with priority queueing. I.e.
>>>>>> shaped traffic is not processed before shared - it's only limited to
>>>>>> certain percentage of the traffic, while shared queues are simply
>>>>>> guaranteed a minimum.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> You can configure shaping as a percentage of negotiated speed, of
>>>>>> course. By default 100% of interface bandwidth (negotiated speed) is
>>>>>> available for all queues. If you want to limit Q2 to say, 33% you can
>>>>>> configure it as "srr-queue bandwidth shape 0 3 0 0". However, if you
>>>>>> want to limit it to say 5 Mb/s REGARDLESS of the negotiated speed,
>>>>>> this cannot be done on 3560, as this is a policing and policing is not
>>>>>> available in the outbound direction on 3560.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Marko Milivojevic - CCIE #18427
>>>>>> Senior Technical Instructor - IPexpert
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> FREE CCIE training: http://bit.ly/vLecture
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Mailto: markom_at_ipexpert.com
>>>>>> Telephone: +1.810.326.1444
>>>>>> Web: http://www.ipexpert.com/
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 13:19, gp <gs4me2me_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Thank you Marko for explanation, it helps.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> What confusing me if I have a task to guaranteed some traffic for example
>>>>>>> 10Mbps on giga interface on switch, and I cannot use priority queue, so I
>>>>>>> want to send that traffic before packet in shared queue in way to put it
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> shaped queue which will be served before shared queues.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The problem is that I donb t know what type of interface will be
>>>>>>> connected
>>>>>>> to my switch (1Gbps or 100M) and that is value from which will be
>>>>>>> calculated value for shaping on particular queue.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> For example:
>>>>>>> Negotiated speed = 1Gbps
>>>>>>> Srr-queue bandwidth shape 0 100 0 0
>>>>>>> Queue 2 will be shaped to 100Mbps
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Negotiated speed = 100Mbps
>>>>>>> Srr-queue bandwidth shape 0 100 0 0
>>>>>>> Queue 2 will be shaped to 10Mbps
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> In other way as I understand there is no way to hard code shape value
>>>>>>> regarding to negotiated speed?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>> Gp
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: Marko Milivojevic [mailto:markom_at_ipexpert.com]
>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2011 7:42 PM
>>>>>>> To: gp
>>>>>>> Cc: ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: shape on 3560
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> It will be using the bandwidth available to the SRR.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Cat2#sh mls qos interface fa0/18 queueing
>>>>>>> FastEthernet0/18
>>>>>>> Egress Priority Queue : disabled
>>>>>>> Shaped queue weights (absolute) :  25 0 0 0
>>>>>>> Shared queue weights  :  25 25 25 25
>>>>>>> The port bandwidth limit : 100  (Operational Bandwidth:100.0) <<<<<<<
>>>>>>> The port is mapped to qset : 1
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> See the "port bandwidth limit" line - that's the BW available to the
>>>>>>> SRR. It is derived from the negotiated speed by default, but can be
>>>>>>> limited using "srr-queue bandwidth limit" command on the interface.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Now, let's see if configured bandwidth influences this in any way:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> interface FastEthernet0/18
>>>>>>> bandwidth 50000
>>>>>>> !
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Cat2(config-if)#do sh mls qos int fa0/18 qu
>>>>>>> FastEthernet0/18
>>>>>>> Egress Priority Queue : disabled
>>>>>>> Shaped queue weights (absolute) :  25 0 0 0
>>>>>>> Shared queue weights  :  25 25 25 25
>>>>>>> The port bandwidth limit : 100  (Operational Bandwidth:100.0)
>>>>>>> The port is mapped to qset : 1
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Doesn't look like it does. If I change the bandwidth limit.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> interface FastEthernet0/18
>>>>>>> bandwidth 50000
>>>>>>> srr-queue bandwidth limit 25
>>>>>>> !
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Cat2(config-if)#do sh mls qos int fa0/18 qu
>>>>>>> FastEthernet0/18
>>>>>>> Egress Priority Queue : disabled
>>>>>>> Shaped queue weights (absolute) :  25 0 0 0
>>>>>>> Shared queue weights  :  25 25 25 25
>>>>>>> The port bandwidth limit : 25  (Operational Bandwidth:27.28)
>>>>>>> The port is mapped to qset : 1
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Whenever in doubt - ask IOS :-)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Marko Milivojevic - CCIE #18427
>>>>>>> Senior Technical Instructor - IPexpert
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> FREE CCIE training: http://bit.ly/vLecture
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Mailto: markom_at_ipexpert.com
>>>>>>> Telephone: +1.810.326.1444
>>>>>>> Web: http://www.ipexpert.com/
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 01:18, gp <gs4me2me_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hello experts,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> When doing shaping on 3560 interface does reference bandwidth is
>>>>>>>> configured
>>>>>>>> bandwidth with bandwidth command or negotiated speed?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> For example the switch port is connected on Fast Ethernet router
>>>>>>>> interface
>>>>>>>> and I configured bandwidth 1000000 on switch port.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> With srr-queue bandwidth shape 0 100 0 0, will queue 2 be shaped on 10
>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>> 1
>>>>>>>> Mbps?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Thank you!
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>>> 
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>>>>> 
>>>>> 
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>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Carlos G Mendioroz  <tron_at_huapi.ba.ar>  LW7 EQI  Argentina
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>> 
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Received on Sun Aug 07 2011 - 12:46:01 ART

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