Re: shape on 3560

From: Paul Negron <negron.paul_at_gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 07 Aug 2011 13:43:06 -0600

You raise a valid point. I believe after having this discussion with
Wendell, we agreed that the traffic that could not be sent into a time
interval was sent in the next time interval.

I believe I had this discussion with Narbik some time ago as well.

I agree.:-)
QOS provides only more questions that is not backed up by documentation.

 It has been a subject that has occupied my time since I worked on StrataCom
gear, some years back.

Enjoy the scenery man!!!!

Paul

-- 
Paul Negron
CCIE# 14856 CCSI# 22752
Senior Technical Instructor
> From: Marko Milivojevic <markom_at_ipexpert.com>
> Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 12:30:04 -0700
> To: Paul Negron <negron.paul_at_gmail.com>
> Cc: gp <gs4me2me_at_gmail.com>, Carlos G Mendioroz <tron_at_huapi.ba.ar>,
> <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
> Subject: Re: shape on 3560
> 
> Addition of PQ on Cats completely messes things up for other queues
> and understanding what happens in them.
> 
> Even without PQ in the mix, Carlos raises a valid question. Alas, one
> which is impossible to answer.
> 
> He's right in saying that shaped queues get a priority in comparison
> to shared. However, this priority is only reflected in the bandwidth
> allocation part. They carve up the total available bandwidth. Whatever
> is left for allocation after shaped queues is carved up by shared
> queues.
> 
> Now, when it comes to dequeueing part, this is when things are truly
> interesting. Carlos mentioned a case when the whole port is
> oversubscribed and suggested how the queues will be used. I agree and
> very much disagree with what he wrote. The problem is - it all depends
> on several things a) time interval; b) number of packets in each
> queue; c) size of each individual packet.
> 
> Remember the old CIR = Bc / Tc formula. Well, it still applies. We can
> only send so many bytes in each time interval to satisfy to total
> transmission rate.
> 
> Now, what happens when we oversubscribe the port *and* the queues.
> Will packet be transmitted if there are available tokens in the
> bucket, but not enough to send the packet? In, for example CQ, the
> answer is yes. in CBWFQ and HQF, the answer is no. How about SRR?
> Cisco doesn't document this (at least I couldn't find it), but this is
> important. Now, what happens if, for example, we run out of bytes in
> an interval to send due to dequeueing method used... Where does the
> next interval start? Q1, or the next queue where the previous interval
> stopped? Again, something Cisco doesn't document, but is rather
> important.
> 
> Analyzing QoS is immensely fun topic to me. I think it's an essence of
> networking, but I'll stop now :-). I have some wonderful sequoia trees
> to see!
> 
> --
> Marko Milivojevic - CCIE #18427
> Senior Technical Instructor - IPexpert
> 
> FREE CCIE training: http://bit.ly/vLecture
> 
> Mailto: markom_at_ipexpert.com
> Telephone: +1.810.326.1444
> Web: http://www.ipexpert.com/
> 
> On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 12:04, Paul Negron <negron.paul_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>> I agree with Marko on this one.
>> 
>> The Delay cannot be verified to be 40/30/30 since you cannot measure how
>> many packets from the Priority Q are actually being serviced in relation to
>> the WFQ scheduler that only spits out one packet at a time.
>> 
>> Also, what delay are you referencing for a 40/30/30 share. Queuing delay
>> only?
>> 
>> What about CPU, Serialization which change pending the packet size. Sure,
>> Serialization delay is almost non-existent with Ethernet designs but it is
>> still there. Thus, you cannot guarantee effective throughput.
>> 
>> Paul
>> 
>> --
>> Paul Negron
>> CCIE# 14856 CCSI# 22752
>> Senior Technical Instructor
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> From: gp <gs4me2me_at_gmail.com>
>>> Reply-To: gp <gs4me2me_at_gmail.com>
>>> Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 20:16:40 +0200
>>> To: 'Carlos G Mendioroz' <tron_at_huapi.ba.ar>, 'Marko Milivojevic'
>>> <markom_at_ipexpert.com>
>>> Cc: <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
>>> Subject: RE: shape on 3560
>>> 
>>> So queue which is shaped has guaranteed bandwidth in relation to shared
>>> queues?
>>> 
>>> Gp
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Carlos G Mendioroz [mailto:tron_at_huapi.ba.ar]
>>> Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2011 8:05 PM
>>> To: Marko Milivojevic
>>> Cc: gp; <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
>>> Subject: Re: shape on 3560
>>> 
>>> Marko,
>>> you say that all queues have guaranteed BW but not delay.
>>> I don't fully understand that.
>>> 
>>> Are you saying that the delay for a packet of some class is not bounded?
>>> If not, delay is also guaranteed.
>>> 
>>> If you have 3 queues, one with 50Mb shape and the other two 1/3 the BW
>>> on a 100 Mb link, anything below congestion (and below 50Mb) will be
>>> just served, but if the 3 queues try to get 40Mb, what will be the
>>> effective throughput of each ?
>>> I would say 40/30/30.
>>> 
>>> -Carlos
>>> 
>>> Marko Milivojevic @ 07/08/2011 14:22 -0300 dixit:
>>>> All queues are guaranteed bandwidth, but not the delay. SRR is round-robin
>>>> alghoritm. Shaped queues are assigned bandwidth first and whatever remains
>>>> is
>>>> used by shared queues, but servicing the data in queues is always equal
>>>> between all the queues.
>>>> 
>>>> When you enable PQ, Q1 is serviced until empty and only then Q2-4 are
>>>> processed according to the SRR configuration and remaining bandwidth in the
>>>> time interval.
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Marko Milivojevic - CCIE #18427
>>>> Senior Technical Instructor - IPexpert
>>>> 
>>>> Free CCIE Training: http://bit.ly/vLecture
>>>> 
>>>> Mailto: markom_at_ipexpert.com
>>>> Telephone: +1.810.326.1444
>>>> Community: http://www.ipexpert.com/communities
>>>> 
>>>> :: Sent from my phone. Apologies for errors and brevity. ::
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Aug 7, 2011, at 2:42, "gp" <gs4me2me_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> I read somewhere that shaped queue is processed before shared.
>>>>> Unfortunately
>>>>> cannot find it:)
>>>>> 
>>>>> Is it possible to guaranteed some traffic bandwidth to be processed before
>>>>> other with limit in task that it cannot be mapped in priority queue
>>>>> because
>>>>> some other traffic more important is mapped to priority queue?
>>>>> 
>>>>> For example:
>>>>> Q1 - traffic X - priority
>>>>> Q2 - traffic XY - less important than traffic X, more important than
>>>>> traffic
>>>>> XYZ
>>>>> Q3&Q4 - traffic XYZ
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Gp
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Marko Milivojevic [mailto:markom_at_ipexpert.com]
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2011 10:46 PM
>>>>> To: gp
>>>>> Cc: ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
>>>>> Subject: Re: shape on 3560
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sharing and shaping has nothing to do with priority queueing. I.e.
>>>>> shaped traffic is not processed before shared - it's only limited to
>>>>> certain percentage of the traffic, while shared queues are simply
>>>>> guaranteed a minimum.
>>>>> 
>>>>> You can configure shaping as a percentage of negotiated speed, of
>>>>> course. By default 100% of interface bandwidth (negotiated speed) is
>>>>> available for all queues. If you want to limit Q2 to say, 33% you can
>>>>> configure it as "srr-queue bandwidth shape 0 3 0 0". However, if you
>>>>> want to limit it to say 5 Mb/s REGARDLESS of the negotiated speed,
>>>>> this cannot be done on 3560, as this is a policing and policing is not
>>>>> available in the outbound direction on 3560.
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> Marko Milivojevic - CCIE #18427
>>>>> Senior Technical Instructor - IPexpert
>>>>> 
>>>>> FREE CCIE training: http://bit.ly/vLecture
>>>>> 
>>>>> Mailto: markom_at_ipexpert.com
>>>>> Telephone: +1.810.326.1444
>>>>> Web: http://www.ipexpert.com/
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 13:19, gp <gs4me2me_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Thank you Marko for explanation, it helps.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> What confusing me if I have a task to guaranteed some traffic for example
>>>>>> 10Mbps on giga interface on switch, and I cannot use priority queue, so I
>>>>>> want to send that traffic before packet in shared queue in way to put it
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> shaped queue which will be served before shared queues.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The problem is that I donb t know what type of interface will be
>>>>>> connected
>>>>>> to my switch (1Gbps or 100M) and that is value from which will be
>>>>>> calculated value for shaping on particular queue.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> For example:
>>>>>> Negotiated speed = 1Gbps
>>>>>> Srr-queue bandwidth shape 0 100 0 0
>>>>>> Queue 2 will be shaped to 100Mbps
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Negotiated speed = 100Mbps
>>>>>> Srr-queue bandwidth shape 0 100 0 0
>>>>>> Queue 2 will be shaped to 10Mbps
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> In other way as I understand there is no way to hard code shape value
>>>>>> regarding to negotiated speed?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> Gp
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Marko Milivojevic [mailto:markom_at_ipexpert.com]
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2011 7:42 PM
>>>>>> To: gp
>>>>>> Cc: ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
>>>>>> Subject: Re: shape on 3560
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> It will be using the bandwidth available to the SRR.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Cat2#sh mls qos interface fa0/18 queueing
>>>>>> FastEthernet0/18
>>>>>> Egress Priority Queue : disabled
>>>>>> Shaped queue weights (absolute) :  25 0 0 0
>>>>>> Shared queue weights  :  25 25 25 25
>>>>>> The port bandwidth limit : 100  (Operational Bandwidth:100.0) <<<<<<<
>>>>>> The port is mapped to qset : 1
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> See the "port bandwidth limit" line - that's the BW available to the
>>>>>> SRR. It is derived from the negotiated speed by default, but can be
>>>>>> limited using "srr-queue bandwidth limit" command on the interface.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Now, let's see if configured bandwidth influences this in any way:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> interface FastEthernet0/18
>>>>>> bandwidth 50000
>>>>>> !
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Cat2(config-if)#do sh mls qos int fa0/18 qu
>>>>>> FastEthernet0/18
>>>>>> Egress Priority Queue : disabled
>>>>>> Shaped queue weights (absolute) :  25 0 0 0
>>>>>> Shared queue weights  :  25 25 25 25
>>>>>> The port bandwidth limit : 100  (Operational Bandwidth:100.0)
>>>>>> The port is mapped to qset : 1
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Doesn't look like it does. If I change the bandwidth limit.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> interface FastEthernet0/18
>>>>>> bandwidth 50000
>>>>>> srr-queue bandwidth limit 25
>>>>>> !
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Cat2(config-if)#do sh mls qos int fa0/18 qu
>>>>>> FastEthernet0/18
>>>>>> Egress Priority Queue : disabled
>>>>>> Shaped queue weights (absolute) :  25 0 0 0
>>>>>> Shared queue weights  :  25 25 25 25
>>>>>> The port bandwidth limit : 25  (Operational Bandwidth:27.28)
>>>>>> The port is mapped to qset : 1
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Whenever in doubt - ask IOS :-)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Marko Milivojevic - CCIE #18427
>>>>>> Senior Technical Instructor - IPexpert
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> FREE CCIE training: http://bit.ly/vLecture
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Mailto: markom_at_ipexpert.com
>>>>>> Telephone: +1.810.326.1444
>>>>>> Web: http://www.ipexpert.com/
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 01:18, gp <gs4me2me_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hello experts,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> When doing shaping on 3560 interface does reference bandwidth is
>>>>>>> configured
>>>>>>> bandwidth with bandwidth command or negotiated speed?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> For example the switch port is connected on Fast Ethernet router
>>>>>>> interface
>>>>>>> and I configured bandwidth 1000000 on switch port.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> With srr-queue bandwidth shape 0 100 0 0, will queue 2 be shaped on 10
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>> 1
>>>>>>> Mbps?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Thank you!
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
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>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Carlos G Mendioroz  <tron_at_huapi.ba.ar>  LW7 EQI  Argentina
>>> 
>>> 
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Received on Sun Aug 07 2011 - 13:43:06 ART

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