Re: cisco labs !!!!!!!!!!

I think the difference is the platform that IOU was running on has
changed. It's now much more portable and there are a lot more options
that were not possible before. This opens things like virtualized
learning and dynamic sessions that were more or less impractical
before. This makes all the difference in the world and which is why
these conversations are topical.

The software may be available today but it would not be nearly as
available as if Cisco published it themselves. I agree it's more or
less the same scenario, but availability shifts the equation a bit
rather than a binary check if it exists somewhere at all.

I don't think delivery chains are one size fits all for this. Groups
like learning at Cisco, Cisco 360, CCIE programs, Advanced Services,
etc all have distinctly different paths which probably only share
access to CCO IDs. There still exists some delivery programs, even if
very similar things have been done before.

Is Microsoft a fair comparison? I'm not sure if that's true. I think
there are some additional risks and costs to opening up software that
is normally a hardened appliance rather than standard desktop
software. It may not eventually be $500, but it should be affordable.

As well, I'm not sure if I agree on the competitive situation on the
Rack rental situation. On one hand, we want Cisco to offer better
software so we don't need rack rentals, and on the other hand we don't
want Cisco to compete with Rack Rentals because it's the current
training status quo. I don't know which is the correct answer, but
it's pretty hard to say they're both right or wrong.

-nick

On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 6:45 AM, Carl Gosselin
<carl.gosselin_at_altizone.com> wrote:
> Nick,
>
> The concerns you raise are valid concerns but most of those are already
> passed. The code has been released on the net.
>
> For that matter, any company that decides to copy the Cisco Intellectual
> Property can do so (dare I mention a Chinese supplier??) depending on the
> support of the local government.
>
> Regarding the cost, they already have a delivery chain so adding this new
> software on the choices of IOS version is not that much of a stretch (just
> have to be compiled and released on Unix platform). Besides they do all of
> that today for their internal needs.
>
> Also nobody says they should do it for free.... They should be able to have
> a small service contract to allow registered partners and customers access
> to that software download. All of these processes are in place today but
> that could mean extra manpower so yes a small fee should be required.
>
> Microsoft does all this for $500USD yearly.
>
> The learning network's offering is good thing for the community is general
> but really it is Cisco's training PNL looking to get revenue from the rack
> rental business without having to pay for the hardware. This is bad business
> because Cisco's is hurting the companies that have helped them grow the
> overall knowledge base of their core technologies. They will also sell less
> hardware if the rack rentals can't make a profit...
>
> I can't comment on the the quality of the 360 Program but bringing in the
> training into Cisco is nothing to be happy about also. Other big companies
> had that model before and their knowledge base never flourished as much as
> Cisco's did.... If it's not broken don't fix it, but again more revenues for
> the PNL. It's kind of funny, all the other suppliers (HP, Juniper, etc) are
> now trying to copy Cisco's training strategy anyway...
>
> I know what my question to John Chambers will be during the Netvet's dinner
> at this year's Networkers....
>
> Regards,
>
> -Carl
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 12:34 AM, Nick Matthews <matthn_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I think Cisco would very much like to do this. It's not quite as
>> simple as just releasing it, however.
>>
>> What's a greater risk - having some dissatisfied customers or
>> releasing unix code that is implemented into a chip and is released as
>> a competitive product? What's the potential for lost revenue if
>> people use the product for production traffic? It may sound extreme,
>> but the probability is not zero.
>>
>> As well, there's infrastructure and support costs for releasing the
>> product. It's worth doing, but it may not have been viable
>> previously. IOU is a Cisco engineering tool and it has been like that
>> for a number of reasons.
>>
>> I think this learning offering is Cisco's first step into this, and
>> there's more to come. I believe the switching infrastructure on the
>> lab exam is virtualized, so it would be logical to assume that would
>> be part of this offering at some point. That would change things in
>> terms of rack rentals in my opinion.
>>
>> -nick
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 11:34 AM, Carl Gosselin
>> <carl.gosselin_at_altizone.com> wrote:
>> > Guys,
>> > I don't know if many of you are self employed or owners of small
>> > proffesional services enterprises but I find that Cisco is not being fair
>> > when it does not release tools such as IOU or L2IOU to all it's partners
>> and
>> > clients. Tools like Dynamips are totally integrated in the way we design
>> and
>> > build solutions for our clients today, this in returns guaranties a Cisco
>> > sale... I would assume it would be in their interest to allow us to use
>> > tools in the long term.
>> >
>> > If they would only look at what the competition is doing, and I mean
>> > Microsoft here, for a minimal yearly service contract (TechNet) you have
>> > access to all their software for testing purposes. The real software...
>> >
>> > I would be more then willing to pay a service contract for Cisco too, if
>> I
>> > could get legitimate tools and know they would get maintained.
>> >
>> > I think this group could be influential with such an approach with Cisco.
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > - Carl
>> >
>> > On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 10:52 AM, Scott Morris <swm_at_emanon.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> From a CCIE perspective, I don't think you'll find a lot of change.
>> >> Like ANY of the simulators, it's not perfect. Especially as you get
>> >> into more complicated scenarios and complex labs. There's no replacing
>> >> real, live equipment.
>> >>
>> >> For the lower-end courses though, it's a great way to give people access
>> >> to things and control what's happening.
>> >>
>> >> Your first two-wheel bike will help you with learning to rider, however,
>> >> it will NOT allow you to win a triathlon. ;)
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> *Scott Morris*, CCIE/x4/ (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service Provider) #4713,
>> >>
>> >> CCDE #2009::D, JNCIE-M #153, JNCIE-ER #102, CISSP, et al.
>> >>
>> >> CCSI #21903, JNCI-M, JNCI-ER
>> >>
>> >> swm_at_emanon.com
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Knowledge is power.
>> >>
>> >> Power corrupts.
>> >>
>> >> Study hard and be Eeeeviiiil......
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 4/12/11 10:48 AM, JB Poplawski wrote:
>> >> > Any Third Party Providers have any comments? I'm assuming this could
>> >> > snag some lab rental time away. I still have my 3 (INE, IPE and
>> >> > Micronics) just need some time to get it done.
>> >> > JB
>> >> >
>> >> > On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 9:33 AM, Nadeem Rafi <nrafia_at_gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >> >> They have announced there few labs and each lab have some sub topics.
>> >> Price
>> >> >> is not much heighr, its around 50 to 75 for 25 hours of time. Labs
>> are
>> >> >> clearly saying Unix IOU. Labs range from ccna to ccip, ccnp
>> (switching
>> >> and
>> >> >> route) few with MPLS but no ccie level lab. But good thing, i hope,
>> will
>> >> be
>> >> >> to get used to lab interface. I assume most probably both interfaces
>> >> will be
>> >> >> same, but i am not sure, only one with both worlds can tell what is
>> >> >> similarity there.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> HTH
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 5:28 PM, Dan Shechter <danshtr_at_gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> cisco learning network is down. did you had the chance to actually
>> see
>> >> what
>> >> >>> is it all about?
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> HTH,
>> >> >>> Dan #13685 (RS/Sec/SP)
>> >> >>> The CCIE troubleshooting blog: http://dans-net.com
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 4:21 PM, Nadeem Rafi <nrafia_at_gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>> *Cisco Announces a Networking Education Breakthrough with Cisco
>> >> Learning
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> Labs*
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> Cisco announces a networking education breakthrough with Cisco
>> >> Learning
>> >> >>>> Labs. For the first time, IT learners can now access real Cisco
>> labs
>> >> with
>> >> >>>> both routing and Layer 2 core switching features.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> Cisco Learning Labs are powered by Cisco IOS. Software on UNIX and
>> >> enable
>> >> >>>> critical, hands-on lab experience for future networking engineers
>> >> >>>> interested
>> >> >>>> in attaining Cisco certifications.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> Elevate your study program with Cisco Learning Labs today and enjoy
>> >> the
>> >> >>>> variety of lab bundles for Cisco CCNA., Cisco CCNP., and Cisco
>> CCIP.
>> >> >>>> certification preparation.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> Cisco Learning Labs are available exclusively on the Cisco Learning
>> >> >>>> Network
>> >> >>>> Store.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> Review all lab bundles and pricing information
>> >> >>>> now.<
>> >> >>>>
>> >>
>> http://mkto-cs0007.com/track?type=click&enid=bWFpbGluZ2lkPWNpc2NvQmV0YWN
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >>
>> 1c3QtMTI3MC02NzAtMC0xMjU5LXByb2QtNzkyJm1lc3NhZ2VpZD0wJmRhdGFiYXNlaWQ9NzkyJnNl<
>> >>
>> http://mkto-cs0007.com/track?type=click&enid=bWFpbGluZ2lkPWNpc2NvQmV0YWN1c3QtMTI3MC02NzAtMC0xMjU5LXByb2QtNzkyJm1lc3NhZ2VpZD0wJmRhdGFiYXNlaWQ9NzkyJnNl
>> >> >
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >>
>> cmlhbD0xMjc5MDY5OTA4JmVtYWlsaWQ9bnJhZmlhQGdtYWlsLmNvbSZ1c2VyaWQ9MTU0OTAxJmV4d
>> >> >>>> HJhPSYmJg==&&&
>> >> >>>> http://www.cisco.com/go/learninglabs?mkt_tok=3RkMMJWWfF9wsRonua
>> >> >>>> vJZKXonjHpfsX57ugkWaag38431UFwdcjKPmjr1YIDSct0dvycMRAVFZl5nQ9RCeOa<
>> >>
>> http://www.cisco.com/go/learninglabs?mkt_tok=3RkMMJWWfF9wsRonuavJZKXonjHpfsX57ugkWaag38431UFwdcjKPmjr1YIDSct0dvycMRAVFZl5nQ9RCeOa
>> >> >
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >> _______________________________________________________________________
>> >> >>>> Subscription information may be found at:
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>> >> >>
>> >> >> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> _______________________________________________________________________
>> >> >> Subscription information may be found at:
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>> >> >
>> >> > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> _______________________________________________________________________
>> >> > Subscription information may be found at:
>> >> > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________________________________
>> >> Subscription information may be found at:
>> >> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>> >
>> >
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>> >
>> > _______________________________________________________________________
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>
>
> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> Subscription information may be found at:
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Received on Wed Apr 13 2011 - 22:22:46 ART