Re: Comment on 360 students bypassing the OEQ on the IE Lab

Marko,

I believe the plan all along was to take over the training market from the
large vendors such
as INE and IPEXPERT. The idea of bringing up the quality of training was a
sham from the
beginning and Cisco underestimated the quality of the competition. The 360
program is
considerably overpriced and that does not delivery for students like the
companies listed
above. The idea of favoring their students in the testing process only shows
the weakness
of Cisco's position.In my opinion, OEQ waiver alone is not going to make 360
more attractive,
at least for the more serious student/engineer.

Thanks
Karar

On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 8:01 AM, Marko Milivojevic <markom_at_ipexpert.com>wrote:

> Now you know _exactly_ what the rest of us screamed about when this
> feature was introduced. O have no problem with Cisco promoting their
> 360 program - hell, it only make me want to produce better products to
> compete with them. In the end, students benefit, partners who hire
> CCIEs benefit - and Cisco benefits having the most successful, the
> most respected and the most coveted certification in the IT world. The
> thing that makes us proud of being CCIEs.
>
> However, what has happened here is that Cisco no longer has control on
> the part of the exam. And as you and I have witnessed, unscrupulous
> training partners, desperate for money, students and trace of success
> of their failed training programs are now using this promotion as a
> leverage in sales. They themselves are bypassing the very RULES of the
> program they are part of. They flat-out promise recommendation at
> sign-up.
>
> We all knew this is going to happen and it happened. Luckily, there
> are still viable alternatives, until the day Cisco decides that 360 is
> prerequisite. When that happens, those training partners with failed
> programs are going under, as vendors who are providing the training
> outside the program right now will have no choice but to join the
> program. When that happens and when that material becomes officially
> supported, those who relied on marketing/sales gimmicks are simply
> going to disappear. In my mind, there is not a shred of a doubt this
> is coming.
>
> Yes, training is a business. The business of TRAINING people, not a
> business of BYPASSING the exam. At IPexpert, we train people and we
> have the largest alumni to prove. Between us and our largest
> competitor, we can claim more CCIEs trained than all 360 vendors
> combined. No wonder they want to see us gone.
>
> --
> Marko Milivojevic - CCIE #18427
> Senior Technical Instructor - IPexpert
>
> YES! We include 400 hours of REAL rack
> time with our Blended Learning Solution!
>
> Mailto: markom_at_ipexpert.com
> Telephone: +1.810.326.1444
> Fax: +1.810.454.0130
> Web: http://www.ipexpert.com/
>
> On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 14:47, Dufour, Andre <Andre.Dufour_at_paetec.com>
> wrote:
> > Marko and all,
> >
> > That is exactly what I am talking about. B I'm glad that you brought up
> that exact example, as I did hear exactly the same thing from a buddy when
> asking about the program and the OEQ waiver being automatically bypassed as
> part of a sales feature.
> >
> > I'm not trying to say that the folks who run the 360 are not good folks,
> I'm just pointing out that I like having the proctors being the judge of a
> pass or fail when talking about the strength of a cert. B I want the CCIE
> certification to continue to mean something and the more impartial it is the
> better.
> >
> > I also want to mention that I'm looking at this from a "value of the
> cert" perspective rather than from a vendor point of view.
> >
> > I'm sure (or at least hopeful) that there would not be any arguments
> about that. B I'm actually a fan of the OEQ and the TS section as they
> represent the different roles that an engineer would be in and add more
> value to the cert.
> >
> > Andre
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Marko Milivojevic [mailto:markom_at_ipexpert.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 9:25 AM
> > To: Dufour, Andre
> > Cc: ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
> > Subject: Re: Comment on 360 students bypassing the OEQ on the IE Lab
> >
> > There is no recommendation from the instructor.
> >
> > Officially yes, but one of the training vendors has confirmed it
> > directly that "whoever registers will get 30 minute extension and
> > recommendation". Also, they confirmed that they will make sure their
> > students who register even before April 1st will get this offer. I
> > don't think you even need to attend the course, just wire them the
> > money.
> >
> > It's that same vendor who takes credit for inventing the rule.
> >
> > --
> > Marko Milivojevic - CCIE #18427
> > Senior Technical Instructor - IPexpert
> >
> > YES! We include 400 hours of REAL rack
> > time with our Blended Learning Solution!
> >
> > Mailto: markom_at_ipexpert.com
> > Telephone: +1.810.326.1444
> > Fax: +1.810.454.0130
> > Web: http://www.ipexpert.com/
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 13:01, Dufour, Andre <Andre.Dufour_at_paetec.com>
> wrote:
> >> Instructing is a business and instructors are rated on how good they do.
> B If a
> >> student gets personal approval from a 360 instructor to bypass the OEQ
> on the
> >> lab, then I see a big conflict of interest. B What if an instructor does
> not
> >> give approval? B What pressures are there for an instructor (let's be
> >> realistic, customer service is part of being an instructor)? B How angry
> >> can/will some folks get when they don't get approval? B There are plenty
> of
> >> variables.
> >>
> >> I think the better route would have been to tout how much better 360
> program
> >> students are doing in the labs (pass rate) as compared to non-360
> students (of
> >> course there's muddy water, etc. but it is a fair approach).
> >>
> >> I like the idea of the stone-faced proctor that you have no personal or
> >> monetary ties to and how the lab, from what I understand, is normally
> graded
> >> by a proctor in another timezone that you will likely never meet, etc.
>
>
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