RE: Comment on 360 students bypassing the OEQ on the IE Lab

It looks like some vendors are acting more professional than other vendors.

-----Original Message-----
From: nobody_at_groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
Anthony Faria
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 12:52 PM
To: Joe Astorino
Cc: Dufour, Andre; Marko Milivojevic; ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
Subject: Re: Comment on 360 students bypassing the OEQ on the IE Lab

Good ole boy because you get a waiver on oeq lol. I hate to say it the only
vendor really heated is ipexpert. Scott yea he didnt like it but he said oh
well narbik said the same. Is business that bad that you are worried you
will lose more? Like Narbik said you had the opportunity to join you chose
not to. IE is not complaining then they a power house of instructors why
should they. Make a selling point for yourself separate yourself from the
other vendors then you wont have to worry. Have something special that makes
you better than the other guys its called marketing and have something to
market. Narbik unique style of teaching chalk and talk and is a great
instructor. IE all the big names in the game. This is business. I am
surprised no one complained IE has all the good people thats not fair lol.
Brian was very aggressive in securing his Business so is he cheating or
devaluing the cert lol. No he is being a smart business man. I am not saying
Wayne is not smart I think he is. You guys just need to do something or you
will get pushed out. That is how business works. OEQ Are not going to
magically devalue the cert. It is so funny it feels like Darby is on the
boards again. I said i was not going to post but man give it a break.

Tony

On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 7:58 AM, Joe Astorino <jastorino_at_ipexpert.com>wrote:

> That's what I said from the first minute it was announced. There are no
> checks in place to validate that the process is "fair." It can VERY
easily
> become a "good old boys" system. They have now placed the validation of
> core knowledge in the hands of a human instead of on a computer
> screen....which I'm pretty sure was the entire point of the OEQ to begin
> with -- fairly validating core knowledge to prevent cheating. Oh well : )
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 10:47 AM, Dufour, Andre <Andre.Dufour_at_paetec.com
> >wrote:
>
> > Marko and all,
> >
> > That is exactly what I am talking about. I'm glad that you brought up
> that
> > exact example, as I did hear exactly the same thing from a buddy when
> asking
> > about the program and the OEQ waiver being automatically bypassed as
part
> of
> > a sales feature.
> >
> > I'm not trying to say that the folks who run the 360 are not good folks,
> > I'm just pointing out that I like having the proctors being the judge of
> a
> > pass or fail when talking about the strength of a cert. I want the CCIE
> > certification to continue to mean something and the more impartial it is
> the
> > better.
> >
> > I also want to mention that I'm looking at this from a "value of the
> cert"
> > perspective rather than from a vendor point of view.
> >
> > I'm sure (or at least hopeful) that there would not be any arguments
> about
> > that. I'm actually a fan of the OEQ and the TS section as they
represent
> > the different roles that an engineer would be in and add more value to
> the
> > cert.
> >
> > Andre
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Marko Milivojevic [mailto:markom_at_ipexpert.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 9:25 AM
> > To: Dufour, Andre
> > Cc: ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
> > Subject: Re: Comment on 360 students bypassing the OEQ on the IE Lab
> >
> > There is no recommendation from the instructor.
> >
> > Officially yes, but one of the training vendors has confirmed it
> > directly that "whoever registers will get 30 minute extension and
> > recommendation". Also, they confirmed that they will make sure their
> > students who register even before April 1st will get this offer. I
> > don't think you even need to attend the course, just wire them the
> > money.
> >
> > It's that same vendor who takes credit for inventing the rule.
> >
> > --
> > Marko Milivojevic - CCIE #18427
> > Senior Technical Instructor - IPexpert
> >
> > YES! We include 400 hours of REAL rack
> > time with our Blended Learning Solution!
> >
> > Mailto: markom_at_ipexpert.com
> > Telephone: +1.810.326.1444
> > Fax: +1.810.454.0130
> > Web: http://www.ipexpert.com/
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 13:01, Dufour, Andre <Andre.Dufour_at_paetec.com>
> > wrote:
> > > Instructing is a business and instructors are rated on how good they
> do.
> > If a
> > > student gets personal approval from a 360 instructor to bypass the OEQ
> on
> > the
> > > lab, then I see a big conflict of interest. What if an instructor
does
> > not
> > > give approval? What pressures are there for an instructor (let's be
> > > realistic, customer service is part of being an instructor)? How
angry
> > > can/will some folks get when they don't get approval? There are
plenty
> > of
> > > variables.
> > >
> > > I think the better route would have been to tout how much better 360
> > program
> > > students are doing in the labs (pass rate) as compared to non-360
> > students (of
> > > course there's muddy water, etc. but it is a fair approach).
> > >
> > > I like the idea of the stone-faced proctor that you have no personal
or
> > > monetary ties to and how the lab, from what I understand, is normally
> > graded
> > > by a proctor in another timezone that you will likely never meet, etc.
> >
> >
> > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >
> > _______________________________________________________________________
> > Subscription information may be found at:
> > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Joe Astorino - CCIE #24347 (Earned not bought)
> Sr. Technical Instructor - IPexpert
> Mailto: jastorino_at_ipexpert.com
> Telephone: +1.810.326.1444
> Live Assistance, Please visit: www.ipexpert.com/chat
> eFax: +1.810.454.0130
>
>
> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> Subscription information may be found at:
> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html

Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
Received on Thu Mar 18 2010 - 14:24:40 ART