Re: Comment on 360 students bypassing the OEQ on the IE Lab

That's what I said from the first minute it was announced. There are no
checks in place to validate that the process is "fair." It can VERY easily
become a "good old boys" system. They have now placed the validation of
core knowledge in the hands of a human instead of on a computer
screen....which I'm pretty sure was the entire point of the OEQ to begin
with -- fairly validating core knowledge to prevent cheating. Oh well : )

On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 10:47 AM, Dufour, Andre <Andre.Dufour_at_paetec.com>wrote:

> Marko and all,
>
> That is exactly what I am talking about. I'm glad that you brought up that
> exact example, as I did hear exactly the same thing from a buddy when asking
> about the program and the OEQ waiver being automatically bypassed as part of
> a sales feature.
>
> I'm not trying to say that the folks who run the 360 are not good folks,
> I'm just pointing out that I like having the proctors being the judge of a
> pass or fail when talking about the strength of a cert. I want the CCIE
> certification to continue to mean something and the more impartial it is the
> better.
>
> I also want to mention that I'm looking at this from a "value of the cert"
> perspective rather than from a vendor point of view.
>
> I'm sure (or at least hopeful) that there would not be any arguments about
> that. I'm actually a fan of the OEQ and the TS section as they represent
> the different roles that an engineer would be in and add more value to the
> cert.
>
> Andre
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marko Milivojevic [mailto:markom_at_ipexpert.com]
> Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 9:25 AM
> To: Dufour, Andre
> Cc: ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
> Subject: Re: Comment on 360 students bypassing the OEQ on the IE Lab
>
> There is no recommendation from the instructor.
>
> Officially yes, but one of the training vendors has confirmed it
> directly that "whoever registers will get 30 minute extension and
> recommendation". Also, they confirmed that they will make sure their
> students who register even before April 1st will get this offer. I
> don't think you even need to attend the course, just wire them the
> money.
>
> It's that same vendor who takes credit for inventing the rule.
>
> --
> Marko Milivojevic - CCIE #18427
> Senior Technical Instructor - IPexpert
>
> YES! We include 400 hours of REAL rack
> time with our Blended Learning Solution!
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> Mailto: markom_at_ipexpert.com
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> On Thu, Mar 18, 2010 at 13:01, Dufour, Andre <Andre.Dufour_at_paetec.com>
> wrote:
> > Instructing is a business and instructors are rated on how good they do.
> If a
> > student gets personal approval from a 360 instructor to bypass the OEQ on
> the
> > lab, then I see a big conflict of interest. What if an instructor does
> not
> > give approval? What pressures are there for an instructor (let's be
> > realistic, customer service is part of being an instructor)? How angry
> > can/will some folks get when they don't get approval? There are plenty
> of
> > variables.
> >
> > I think the better route would have been to tout how much better 360
> program
> > students are doing in the labs (pass rate) as compared to non-360
> students (of
> > course there's muddy water, etc. but it is a fair approach).
> >
> > I like the idea of the stone-faced proctor that you have no personal or
> > monetary ties to and how the lab, from what I understand, is normally
> graded
> > by a proctor in another timezone that you will likely never meet, etc.
>
>
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-- 
Regards,
Joe Astorino - CCIE #24347 (Earned not bought)
Sr. Technical Instructor - IPexpert
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