Re: Narbik's Service Provider & Security bootcamp - The wait is

I believe that members of this forum should know the good, bad and the ugly
side of the vendors before they join. They should know what is available and
who is offering what classes. How else would these members know
that???????????????????
If a member does not like to receive these e-mails, he/she can delete them
based on their subject. If i do not care about SNA and/or DLSW, i will
simply ignore or delete them. no one i know is interested in every subject
that goes on here.
BUT I don't beleive that any of the vendors have gone overboard as far as
advertisements.
What is wrong with what Nadeem said, or what Ron mentioned, why quickly come
back and make a comment? would these 1, 2, 3 or 4 star Generals make a
comment if the subject was about their classes or products? I bet NOT.
There are lots of GR8 technical discussions here in GS and members help
other members on regular basis, IT DOES NOT hurt to know what the vendors
offer.

On Sun, Jan 17, 2010 at 10:35 AM, Wayne Lawson <groupstudy_at_ipexpert.com>wrote:

> This is an 11-year+ problem that has never been resolved (or should I
> say "agreed upon"). I'm pretty sure Brad, Scott, Brian, Narbik and I have
> all seen / addressed this a few dozen times! See....some vendors, in the
> past, have used hotmail and gmail addresses as "ghost customers". These
> "fake people" bash other vendors and make false statements about products,
> instructors and competition on GS.
>
> There's also the problem with certain vendors promoting their products
> or even getting into battles with other vendors / instructors (note: this is
> much different than supporting products - when I say "promoting" I mean
> posting information about a product - using GS to gain visibility with the
> hope to sell something or solicit customers. However, there's also the
> question - can I post a "freebie" - and is that "promoting" - the verdict is
> still out depending on who posts it and who you ask). It's unfortunate -
> but a large portion of the GS community is gullable and takes everything
> posted here as "the truth". So - ultimately - I agree with Scott (don't use
> this list to make your decision - go directly to each vendor and make an
> informed decision.
>
> As a potential customer - I would *hope* that buyers contact each
> vender directly. Ask them what you want to know - and ask for referrals and
> / or proof of what they're telling you. Look at key indicators like how many
> people they've helped pass (ask for referrals and check out their
> testimonials and "wall of fame"), ask how up-to-date their products are (ask
> for samples), ask about their online racks (ask for a sample / test
> voucher), ask about support (then join their support communities and monitor
> it), ask how refunds, retakes and updates are handled - and get it in
> writing, go to the local Cisco Users Group - or call your peers / people you
> may know who are studying for the lab (and get their opinions) - and so on.
>
> This decision is usually one of the biggest decisions you'll make in
> your professional career. If you were going to enroll or apply to a college
> / universty - would you join a mailing list and value the opinions coming
> from people you don't know? Your CCIE number - in most cases - will help
> earn you a six-figure salary and sometimes carry as much weight (or more)
> than a AS or BS degree - so apply the same tactics you would apply (before
> purchasing) that you would apply of you were selecting a college /
> universty.
>
> The main point here is that I agree with everyone. Scott is accurate -
> Ask the vendors directly. The other GS members (Nadeem and itechguru) who
> have responded also have a valid point - "ask people" - but my *suggestion*
> is to know who is giving you advice and collect your facts in a serious and
> logical manner.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Wayne A. Lawson II - CCIE #5244
> Founder & President - IPexpert
> Mailto: wlawson_at_ipexpert.com
> Telephone: +1.810.326.1444, ext. 101
> Live Assistance, Please visit: www.ipexpert.com/chat
> eFax: +1.810.454.0130
>
> ::Message sent from iPhone::
>
>
>
> On Jan 17, 2010, at 1:07 PM, Itechguru <wajid.ccie_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I would definitely agree with Nadeem. There is nothing wrong in discussing
>> different vendors or mentioning their products @ GS.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 17, 2010 at 12:51 PM, Nadeem Rafi <nrafia_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> hi,
>>> I am a proud customer of INE and very well satisfied with their products,
>>> a
>>> good admirer of Narbik and his way of teaching, esp. his mentoring
>>> capabilities. Never worked with IPexpert but they equally earn my respect
>>> for their hard work (although non of these are free :) )
>>> But i deserve to have right to know about all of them on neutral play
>>> ground
>>> which is GS. This is GS which let me deiced to go with INE CCIE 2.0
>>> program.
>>> So let the information flow smoothly, and ppl like me can decide based on
>>> their own judgments.
>>>
>>> Best Regards,
>>>
>>> Nadeem Rafi
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jan 17, 2010 at 8:34 PM, Narbik Kocharians <narbikk_at_gmail.com
>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>
>>> Ron and Nrafia or others that are interested,
>>>>
>>>> Yes we do, please UNICAST me if interested.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jan 17, 2010 at 5:53 AM, Scott Morris <smorris_at_ine.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> So where does that fine line exist between letting people know what's
>>>>> going on and being called advertising? It seems we've all had
>>>>> difficulty in establishing that line in the past. (different
>>>>> candidates
>>>>> have differerent thresholds)
>>>>>
>>>>> It would appear best to track anyone's updates:
>>>>>
>>>>> CCBootcamp www.ccbootcamp.com (Not sure there's a blog)
>>>>> INE www.ine.com blog.ine.com
>>>>> IPE www.ipexpert.com blog.ipexpert.com
>>>>> Narbik www.micronicstraining.com (I'm not sure if he has a blog,
>>>>>
>>>> sorry)
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Note... Those are listed in alphabetical order, not establishing any
>>>>> order of preference or not! :)
>>>>>
>>>>> Each of the web sites though will also list e-mail addresses to get in
>>>>> contact with the person(s) directly.
>>>>>
>>>>> Scott Morris, CCIEx4 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service Provider) #4713,
>>>>>
>>>>> JNCIE-M #153, JNCIS-ER, CISSP, et al.
>>>>>
>>>>> JNCI-M, JNCI-ER
>>>>>
>>>>> evil_at_ine.com
>>>>>
>>>>> Internetwork Expert, Inc.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.InternetworkExpert.com <http://www.internetworkexpert.com/><
>>>>> http://www.internetworkexpert.com/>
>>>>>
>>>>> Toll Free: 877-224-8987
>>>>>
>>>>> Outside US: 775-826-4344
>>>>>
>>>>> Knowledge is power.
>>>>>
>>>>> Power corrupts.
>>>>>
>>>>> Study hard and be Eeeeviiiil......
>>>>>
>>>>> nrafia_at_gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I dont feel any thing bad, if persons even ask on list. Being a
>>>>>
>>>> candidate
>>>
>>>> it let me know whats going on.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 17, 2010 11:51am, Marko Milivojevic <markom_at_ipexpert.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 19:42, kaushalccie patel
>>>>> kaushalccie_at_gmail.com >
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Any news for Service Provider Workbook also ?
>>>>>
>>>>> How about asking this directly from the vendor's website / forum /
>>>>>
>>>>> sales / support / personal e-mail?
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> Marko Milivojevic - CCIE #18427
>>>>>
>>>>> Senior Technical Instructor - IPexpert
>>>>>
>>>>> Mailto: markom_at_ipexpert.com
>>>>>
>>>>> Telephone: +1.810.326.1444
>>>>>
>>>>> Fax: +1.810.454.0130
>>>>>
>>>>> Community: http://www.ipexpert.com/communities
>>>>>
>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>
>>
>
>
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>>>>
>
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>>>>>
>>>>
>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Narbik Kocharians
>>>> CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
>>>> www.MicronicsTraining.com <http://www.micronicstraining.com/>
>>>> Sr. Technical Instructor
>>>> YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
>>>> Training And Remote Racks available
>>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
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>>
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>>
>
>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>

-- 
Narbik Kocharians
CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
www.MicronicsTraining.com
Sr. Technical Instructor
YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
Training And Remote Racks available
Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net