Re: Narbik's Service Provider & Security bootcamp - The wait is

Hi,

Vendor should be asked, but what a candidate like me should ask? Sure i will
ask about plus points of their products, and i am sure every vendor has plus
points compared to others. but who will tell me negative points? i dont
think that any vendor will provide his negative points. These are PPL who
let me know here what is really plus point for a particular vendor and what
are downsides of that vendor.
PPL are quite sharp and they can easily differentiate between a true
candidate and an advertising hopeless person.
Please let the people decide when enough is enough, its much better than
giving a head to every such post. ( i am not directing it to any vendor or
person)

I am very sensible about freedom of expression as in my country of residence
i am deprived of it by force... so i spent all non-sleeping time in a free
world called Internet :)

Have a nice time ....

On Sun, Jan 17, 2010 at 9:35 PM, Wayne Lawson <groupstudy_at_ipexpert.com>wrote:

> This is an 11-year+ problem that has never been resolved (or should I
> say "agreed upon"). I'm pretty sure Brad, Scott, Brian, Narbik and I have
> all seen / addressed this a few dozen times! See....some vendors, in the
> past, have used hotmail and gmail addresses as "ghost customers". These
> "fake people" bash other vendors and make false statements about products,
> instructors and competition on GS.
>
> There's also the problem with certain vendors promoting their products
> or even getting into battles with other vendors / instructors (note: this is
> much different than supporting products - when I say "promoting" I mean
> posting information about a product - using GS to gain visibility with the
> hope to sell something or solicit customers. However, there's also the
> question - can I post a "freebie" - and is that "promoting" - the verdict is
> still out depending on who posts it and who you ask). It's unfortunate -
> but a large portion of the GS community is gullable and takes everything
> posted here as "the truth". So - ultimately - I agree with Scott (don't use
> this list to make your decision - go directly to each vendor and make an
> informed decision.
>
> As a potential customer - I would *hope* that buyers contact each
> vender directly. Ask them what you want to know - and ask for referrals and
> / or proof of what they're telling you. Look at key indicators like how many
> people they've helped pass (ask for referrals and check out their
> testimonials and "wall of fame"), ask how up-to-date their products are (ask
> for samples), ask about their online racks (ask for a sample / test
> voucher), ask about support (then join their support communities and monitor
> it), ask how refunds, retakes and updates are handled - and get it in
> writing, go to the local Cisco Users Group - or call your peers / people you
> may know who are studying for the lab (and get their opinions) - and so on.
>
> This decision is usually one of the biggest decisions you'll make in
> your professional career. If you were going to enroll or apply to a college
> / universty - would you join a mailing list and value the opinions coming
> from people you don't know? Your CCIE number - in most cases - will help
> earn you a six-figure salary and sometimes carry as much weight (or more)
> than a AS or BS degree - so apply the same tactics you would apply (before
> purchasing) that you would apply of you were selecting a college /
> universty.
>
> The main point here is that I agree with everyone. Scott is accurate -
> Ask the vendors directly. The other GS members (Nadeem and itechguru) who
> have responded also have a valid point - "ask people" - but my *suggestion*
> is to know who is giving you advice and collect your facts in a serious and
> logical manner.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Wayne A. Lawson II - CCIE #5244
> Founder & President - IPexpert
> Mailto: wlawson_at_ipexpert.com
> Telephone: +1.810.326.1444, ext. 101
> Live Assistance, Please visit: www.ipexpert.com/chat
> eFax: +1.810.454.0130
>
> ::Message sent from iPhone::
>
>
>
> On Jan 17, 2010, at 1:07 PM, Itechguru <wajid.ccie_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I would definitely agree with Nadeem. There is nothing wrong in discussing
>> different vendors or mentioning their products @ GS.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 17, 2010 at 12:51 PM, Nadeem Rafi <nrafia_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> hi,
>>> I am a proud customer of INE and very well satisfied with their products,
>>> a
>>> good admirer of Narbik and his way of teaching, esp. his mentoring
>>> capabilities. Never worked with IPexpert but they equally earn my respect
>>> for their hard work (although non of these are free :) )
>>> But i deserve to have right to know about all of them on neutral play
>>> ground
>>> which is GS. This is GS which let me deiced to go with INE CCIE 2.0
>>> program.
>>> So let the information flow smoothly, and ppl like me can decide based on
>>> their own judgments.
>>>
>>> Best Regards,
>>>
>>> Nadeem Rafi
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jan 17, 2010 at 8:34 PM, Narbik Kocharians <narbikk_at_gmail.com
>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>
>>> Ron and Nrafia or others that are interested,
>>>>
>>>> Yes we do, please UNICAST me if interested.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jan 17, 2010 at 5:53 AM, Scott Morris <smorris_at_ine.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> So where does that fine line exist between letting people know what's
>>>>> going on and being called advertising? It seems we've all had
>>>>> difficulty in establishing that line in the past. (different
>>>>> candidates
>>>>> have differerent thresholds)
>>>>>
>>>>> It would appear best to track anyone's updates:
>>>>>
>>>>> CCBootcamp www.ccbootcamp.com (Not sure there's a blog)
>>>>> INE www.ine.com blog.ine.com
>>>>> IPE www.ipexpert.com blog.ipexpert.com
>>>>> Narbik www.micronicstraining.com (I'm not sure if he has a blog,
>>>>>
>>>> sorry)
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Note... Those are listed in alphabetical order, not establishing any
>>>>> order of preference or not! :)
>>>>>
>>>>> Each of the web sites though will also list e-mail addresses to get in
>>>>> contact with the person(s) directly.
>>>>>
>>>>> Scott Morris, CCIEx4 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service Provider) #4713,
>>>>>
>>>>> JNCIE-M #153, JNCIS-ER, CISSP, et al.
>>>>>
>>>>> JNCI-M, JNCI-ER
>>>>>
>>>>> evil_at_ine.com
>>>>>
>>>>> Internetwork Expert, Inc.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.InternetworkExpert.com <http://www.internetworkexpert.com/>
>>>>>
>>>>> Toll Free: 877-224-8987
>>>>>
>>>>> Outside US: 775-826-4344
>>>>>
>>>>> Knowledge is power.
>>>>>
>>>>> Power corrupts.
>>>>>
>>>>> Study hard and be Eeeeviiiil......
>>>>>
>>>>> nrafia_at_gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I dont feel any thing bad, if persons even ask on list. Being a
>>>>>
>>>> candidate
>>>
>>>> it let me know whats going on.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 17, 2010 11:51am, Marko Milivojevic <markom_at_ipexpert.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 19:42, kaushalccie patel
>>>>> kaushalccie_at_gmail.com >
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Any news for Service Provider Workbook also ?
>>>>>
>>>>> How about asking this directly from the vendor's website / forum /
>>>>>
>>>>> sales / support / personal e-mail?
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> Marko Milivojevic - CCIE #18427
>>>>>
>>>>> Senior Technical Instructor - IPexpert
>>>>>
>>>>> Mailto: markom_at_ipexpert.com
>>>>>
>>>>> Telephone: +1.810.326.1444
>>>>>
>>>>> Fax: +1.810.454.0130
>>>>>
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>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Narbik Kocharians
>>>> CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
>>>> www.MicronicsTraining.com
>>>> Sr. Technical Instructor
>>>> YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
>>>> Training And Remote Racks available
>>>>
>>>
>>>
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Received on Sun Jan 17 2010 - 22:01:13 ART