Isn't there a Brocade switch in the Storage lab? So they can do multi-vendor stuff :-)
I don't see them actually bringing in Juniper MX's or something of that fashion (cool boxes though ;-)
-- Regards, Rick Mur CCIE2 #21946 (R&S / Service Provider) Sr. Support Engineer IPexpert, Inc. URL: http://www.IPexpert.com On 8 dec 2009, at 04:58, John Gitau wrote: > Scott, > :-) in my neck of the woods we get to see an even better mix. Cisco > Juniper and Huawei. There is no way for them to test a multivendor > core without acknowledging who their biggest comptetitors are. That I > don't see them testing unless they do the usual 'pretend you are not > connecting to cisco'. Unfortunately/or fortunately for most African > and I suspect some parts of Europe, some chinese vendors are making > fast inroads at the core. having worked on most of them, id say they > all do a pretty decent job... > > I think the focus (by cisco) should be on technologies and how their > boxes deliver them, how they deliver that certification might matter > but not really make a difference to the certification process... > > and yes changes to the SP track were long overdue ... > > JGitau > > On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 11:30 PM, Scott Morris <smorris_at_ine.com> wrote: >> Actually many good points made in here... And that's been one of those >> debates for a long time in SPs who have traditionally been >> anti-certification and pro-experience (hence Marko's highly entertaining >> posit about cardio-thoracic surgeons earlier... >> >> But the funny thing is that as a technology, MPLS works pretty much the >> same on a 3725 as it does on a GSR. In fact, it works pretty much the >> same on a 3725 as it does on a Juniper T1600. You either get it or you >> don't. >> >> If you want to test people on trying to figure out how to upgrade code >> on a line card of a GSR (which the router very nicely TELLS you how to >> do anyway), then sure, go for it. But otherwise, you're testing >> features not technologies. >> >> Personally, if someone were going to do it right, they would come up >> with an Expert SP certification that contained BOTH Cisco and Juniper >> equipment and you had to figure out how to make things work! THAT's >> more of a pain that many other things that may get added in there. :) >> >> Anyway, once you get to working on a live environment, you'll have lots >> of details to fill in. I don't care which track we are talking about. >> None are perfect, even the new R&S. Because certain realities often >> differ from the testing environment. Someone either knows how to adapt >> or they do not. And if you can't. Well... Bummer that one. But that >> same logic holds true about how many enterprises have 6500's and it's >> not on the R&S exam. *shrug* >> >> Who cares. Whatever changes come, adapt and overcome. Spend too much >> time worrying about it and all you'll have to show for it is ulcers. >> And doctor's bills. And more ulcers from worrying about whether your >> doctor had a C average or an A average. :) We either know things or we >> don't. That which we don't know, we either figure out or we don't. The >> market will move on and we will either be a part of it or we won't. >> There's personal stake in here too, never forget that! >> >> My two cents. (or 1.3 Euros that I still have left from Amsterdam!) >> >> >> >> >> *Scott Morris*, CCIE/x4/ (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service Provider) #4713, >> >> JNCIE-M #153, JNCIS-ER, CISSP, et al. >> >> JNCI-M, JNCI-ER >> >> evil_at_ine.com >> >> >> Internetwork Expert, Inc. >> >> http://www.InternetworkExpert.com >> >> Toll Free: 877-224-8987 >> >> Outside US: 775-826-4344 >> >> >> Knowledge is power. >> >> Power corrupts. >> >> Study hard and be Eeeeviiiil...... >> >> >> >> >> >> Narbik Kocharians wrote: >>> I will be very surprised if Cisco adds CRSs and 7600s to the rack or KILL >>> the cert all together, but then again i have been surprised before.......for >>> few features here and there they will NOT kill the cert by adding 12K or >>> CRSs. If you go based on that philosophy, the R&S track is pretty bad as >>> well, who uses 3560s as their core? No matter where you go these days you >>> are going to see 6500s, 4948s, 3750s, VSS and from time to time 4500s, you >>> don't see them in the lab do you? They don t cost that much to Cisco but >>> they are NOT in the lab. >>> >>> >>> >>> I can see them adding more 7200s, 1000s and may be god forbid ONE 7600 >>> (Which i doubt), BUT i do not see them adding anything else, what would it >>> buys them? When you talk to people at Cisco you quickly realize that these >>> people understand that for the cert to work, people need to have the ability >>> to purchase the equipment, could you imagine if they emulate a TRUE provider >>> environment? Will IPexpert have the equipment to train the SP track? If so, >>> how many racks are they going to have? Forget IPexpert, who will have SP >>> racks? NOT me for sure. Unless Cisco puts up bunch of SP racks and rents >>> them to public for what we pay for a regular R&S rack. >>> >>> >>> >>> BTW, the cost of 7600s is NOT dirt cheap for Cisco, routers are routers, and >>> one department will charge the other, they need *to justify it*, just look >>> at the current R&S racks that are provided by Cisco for the 360 program, >>> there are ONLY 32 of them, they are going to add more, but its NOT that >>> cheap or that easy when you have to justify it from the business >>> perspective. >>> >>> >>> >>> There are typically two different departments in the Provider network, the >>> PE/CE Eng. and the Core Eng. I think the current track is not missing that >>> much if any when it comes to PE/CE Eng. Now for the core they are missing >>> some stuff but it is NOT that big that a CCIE SP can't handle. I know the >>> next response will have a list of things that an SP CCIE did not have an >>> exposure to, but you always learn, you know enough to pick up what you have >>> not been exposed to. >>> >>> Let's NOT forget that normally in the core no matter where you go you >>> see Juniper as well. A CCIE SP will have to learn lots of hardware, BUT when >>> it comes to features, he/she will pick it up in no time. Another thing you >>> need to remember is that no matter how many CCIEs you have and no matter >>> what they do to the track, you still have to learn what the company that >>> just employed you has and what they do and how they do it and the reasons >>> why.. >>> >>> >>> >>> But again, we are all guessing and assuming here. >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 10:35 AM, <nortic_at_hackermail.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Marko, you can not lead if you don't want anyone to follow. Nine-tenths of >>>> education is encouragement - Anatole France >>>> Here is a theory: Inferior men boast about experience, Superior men boast >>>> about victories. >>>> >>>> There is no difference between running IOS on a P4 or a MPC7448. RFC's are >>>> CPU independent. >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Marko Milivojevic <markom_at_ipexpert.com> >>>> To: Roger Pfaeffli <rpf23543_at_gmail.com> >>>> Cc: Azar Ali <azarali1980_at_gmail.com>; Narbik Kocharians >>>> >>> <narbikk_at_gmail.com>; >>> >>>> Ashwin Iyer <ash.iyer_at_gmail.com>; Majonestx <majonestx_at_gmail.com>; Cisco >>>> certification <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com> >>>> Sent: Mon, Dec 7, 2009 3:31 pm >>>> Subject: Re: CCIE SP Changes >>>> >>>> I agree with all of the below, but it also comes down to "what does >>>> cert X represent". >>>> >>>> Do you really want to go to a certified cardio surgeon who has ... no >>>> experience, but hey, he's got Certified Heart Surgeon (20% or less >>>> chance of death)? No, me neither :-) >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Marko Milivojevic - CCIE #18427 >>>> Senior Technical Instructor - IPexpert >>>> >>>> Mailto: markom_at_ipexpert.com >>>> Telephone: +1.810.326.1444 >>>> Live Assistance, Please visit: http://www.ipexpert.com/chat >>>> eFax: +1.810.454.0130 >>>> >>>> On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 13:25, Roger Pfaeffli <rpf23543_at_gmail.com >>>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> Hi Marko, somehow you are right but I think you agree with me, that a Cert >>>>> >>> is >>> >>>> still a Cert and some of the things are not really relevant to livenetwork. >>>> >>> So >>> >>>> how you want to study for them? Even if you have many years of experience, >>>> >>> if >>> >>>> you have never used Cell Mode MPLS for example it makes it difficult to >>>> >>> study >>> >>>> for it, isn't it? Normally you will not find all the Cert stuff in real >>>> networks. >>>> >>>>> To me, a big part of studying means hands on and training, training, >>>>> >>> training. >>> >>>> I think that only with that way you can see how it works and figure out >>>> >>> issues >>> >>>> and weakness. You learn how to troubleshoot and so on. >>>> >>>>> If you are lucky (as I am), you have CRS's, 7600's, ASR's and all other >>>>> >>> big >>> >>>> and expensive boxes in your lab, but what if you don't? Do you think >>>> >>> someone >>> >>>> with no access to these products should not have the chance to make a SP? >>>> >>>>> There are different point of views and we could discuss a long time. I >>>>> >>>> definitely agree that the tracks should be very close to the real world but >>>> there should somehow be the possibility to make "real live training". >>>> >>>>> This is very good possible also with the SP track... >>>>> >>>>> So let's see what's coming in future for SP :o) >>>>> >>>>> Regards >>>>> >>>>> Roger >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----UrsprC<ngliche Nachricht----- >>>>> Von: Marko Milivojevic [mailto:markom_at_ipexpert.com] >>>>> Gesendet: Montag, 7. Dezember 2009 13:39 >>>>> An: Roger Pfaeffli >>>>> Cc: Azar Ali; Narbik Kocharians; Ashwin Iyer; Majonestx; Cisco >>>>> >>> certification >>> >>>>> Betreff: Re: CCIE SP Changes >>>>> >>>>> I don't understand why everyone brings up "end of home lab" as >>>>> something that is relevant. It's a SERVICE PROVIDER expert cert - none >>>>> of us can have that kind of lab at home. If you CAN have it, there is >>>>> something seriously wrong with the track. As someone who has worked >>>>> for almost 15 years in SP arena, I should know :-). >>>>> >>>>> When CCIE came to market and became prestigious, it was equally >>>>> expensive to prepare for it as it would be with "new" SP track. >>>>> Personally, I see nothing seriously wrong with that. Certificate needs >>>>> to be relevant, difficult and require dedication, study and experience >>>>> to obtain. If certificate doesn't have those attributes, it's as >>>>> useful as MCP Windows 98. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Marko Milivojevic - CCIE #18427 >>>>> Senior Technical Instructor - IPexpert >>>>> >>>>> Mailto: markom_at_ipexpert.com >>>>> >>>>> Telephone: +1.810.326.1444 >>>>> Live Assistance, Please visit: http://www.ipexpert.com/chat >>>>> eFax: +1.810.454.0130 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 11:55, Roger Pfaeffli <rpf23543_at_gmail.com >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Well Marko, if you are right that would mean "the end" of home labs... >>>>>> ...at least for most of the students. I mean, imagine how much it would >>>>>> >>> cost >>> >>>> to make a home lab with 7600, ASR1000... >>>> >>>>>> I think even if you work with a SP, it could be difficult to get these >>>>>> >>> boxes >>> >>>> 1 year just for studying. >>>> >>>>>> I definitely agree, there should be some changes in the SP lab to bring >>>>>> >>> it up >>> >>>> to date, Cell Mode MPLS is (at least in my opinion) not really something we >>>> should learn as the "future technology". Additionally there is so much >>>> >>> L2VPN >>> >>>> stuff they should add. >>>> >>>>>> Apart from the fact that I hate the C7600 (evil QoS and other weird >>>>>> >>> stuff >>> >>>> depending on the Linecard), I hope that Cisco will change the blueprint in >>>> >>> that >>> >>>> way that it "can be affordable" to make a home-, or company lab. >>>> >>>>>> I would be very disappointed if they would shutdown this track...I mean, >>>>>> >>> they >>> >>>> should rather shutdown Storage than the SP track...but that's my personal >>>> >>> point >>> >>>> of view. >>>> >>>>>> Let's see what happens :o) >>>>>> >>>>>> Roger >>>>>> >>>>>> -----UrsprC<ngliche Nachricht----- >>>>>> Von: nobody_at_groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com] Im Auftrag von >>>>>> >>>> Marko Milivojevic >>>> >>>>>> Gesendet: Montag, 7. Dezember 2009 09:09 >>>>>> An: Azar Ali >>>>>> Cc: Narbik Kocharians; Ashwin Iyer; Majonestx; Cisco certification >>>>>> Betreff: Re: CCIE SP Changes >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 07:50, Azar Ali <azarali1980_at_gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> As Narbik said, its impossible to add 7600/12000 series routers due to >>>>>>> >>> cost. >>> >>>>>>> So I don't expect too much change.B I'm curious to see whatB cisco can >>>>>>> >>> do >>> >>>> for >>>> >>>>>>> SP track apart from IOS,core knowledge,troubleshooting sections. Yeah, >>>>>>> >>> can >>> >>>>>>> could add a few more 7200's and probably some ISR's. >>>>>>> >>>>>> I beg to differ. 7600 for Cisco are dirt cheap and all they would need >>>>>> are two per location. Add to that a couple of ASR1000 boxes, combined >>>>>> with 3-4 ME-3400 switches and you got yourself a pretty decent SP >>>>>> setup, unlike the one we have today. >>>>>> >>>>>> IB4m certain we are going to see either change comparable to what I >>>>>> described, or a complete shutdown of the track. All other tracks at the >>>>>> moment make sense relevance and technology-wise. SP is very out of >>>>>> date. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Marko Milivojevic - CCIE #18427 >>>>>> Senior Technical Instructor - IPexpert >>>>>> >>>>>> Mailto: markom_at_ipexpert.com >>>>>> >>>>>> Telephone: +1.810.326.1444 >>>>>> Live Assistance, Please visit: http://www.ipexpert.com/chat >>>>>> eFax: +1.810.454.0130 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________________________________ >>>>>> Subscription information may be found at: >>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html >>>>>> >>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________________________________ >>>> Subscription information may be found at: >>>> >>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Narbik Kocharians >>> CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security) >>> www.MicronicsTraining.com >>> Sr. Technical Instructor >>> YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits! >>> Training And Remote Racks available >>> >>> >>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net >>> >>> _______________________________________________________________________ >>> Subscription information may be found at: >>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html >> >> >> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net >> >> _______________________________________________________________________ >> Subscription information may be found at: >> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > -- > **Gitau > > > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net > > _______________________________________________________________________ > Subscription information may be found at: > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.netReceived on Tue Dec 08 2009 - 07:42:52 ART
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