Re: CCIE SP Changes

M5 or an M7 would do..Cisco isn't using 7600 in the lab anyway... Actually I
did see some guys from China I believe were doing this Cisco - Juniper
Interop Certification.. Kind of like a certification of their own..Nigel
Meng is the guy..
http://www.linkedin.com/ppl/webprofile?vmi=&id=6371311&pvs=pp&authToken=vwPv&authType=name&locale=en_US&trk=ppro_viewmore&lnk=vw_pprofile

<http://www.linkedin.com/ppl/webprofile?vmi=&id=6371311&pvs=pp&authToken=vwPv&authType=name&locale=en_US&trk=ppro_viewmore&lnk=vw_pprofile>
http://cn.linkedin.com/in/koseidon8 <-- Another profile.. I was just
beginning to wonder what the MNCIF would stand for..

-Hoogen

On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 10:42 PM, Rick Mur <rmur_at_ipexpert.com> wrote:

> Isn't there a Brocade switch in the Storage lab? So they can do
> multi-vendor stuff :-)
> I don't see them actually bringing in Juniper MX's or something of that
> fashion (cool boxes though ;-)
>
>
>
> --
> Regards,
>
> Rick Mur
> CCIE2 #21946 (R&S / Service Provider)
> Sr. Support Engineer IPexpert, Inc.
> URL: http://www.IPexpert.com
>
> On 8 dec 2009, at 04:58, John Gitau wrote:
>
> > Scott,
> > :-) in my neck of the woods we get to see an even better mix. Cisco
> > Juniper and Huawei. There is no way for them to test a multivendor
> > core without acknowledging who their biggest comptetitors are. That I
> > don't see them testing unless they do the usual 'pretend you are not
> > connecting to cisco'. Unfortunately/or fortunately for most African
> > and I suspect some parts of Europe, some chinese vendors are making
> > fast inroads at the core. having worked on most of them, id say they
> > all do a pretty decent job...
> >
> > I think the focus (by cisco) should be on technologies and how their
> > boxes deliver them, how they deliver that certification might matter
> > but not really make a difference to the certification process...
> >
> > and yes changes to the SP track were long overdue ...
> >
> > JGitau
> >
> > On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 11:30 PM, Scott Morris <smorris_at_ine.com> wrote:
> >> Actually many good points made in here... And that's been one of those
> >> debates for a long time in SPs who have traditionally been
> >> anti-certification and pro-experience (hence Marko's highly entertaining
> >> posit about cardio-thoracic surgeons earlier...
> >>
> >> But the funny thing is that as a technology, MPLS works pretty much the
> >> same on a 3725 as it does on a GSR. In fact, it works pretty much the
> >> same on a 3725 as it does on a Juniper T1600. You either get it or you
> >> don't.
> >>
> >> If you want to test people on trying to figure out how to upgrade code
> >> on a line card of a GSR (which the router very nicely TELLS you how to
> >> do anyway), then sure, go for it. But otherwise, you're testing
> >> features not technologies.
> >>
> >> Personally, if someone were going to do it right, they would come up
> >> with an Expert SP certification that contained BOTH Cisco and Juniper
> >> equipment and you had to figure out how to make things work! THAT's
> >> more of a pain that many other things that may get added in there. :)
> >>
> >> Anyway, once you get to working on a live environment, you'll have lots
> >> of details to fill in. I don't care which track we are talking about.
> >> None are perfect, even the new R&S. Because certain realities often
> >> differ from the testing environment. Someone either knows how to adapt
> >> or they do not. And if you can't. Well... Bummer that one. But that
> >> same logic holds true about how many enterprises have 6500's and it's
> >> not on the R&S exam. *shrug*
> >>
> >> Who cares. Whatever changes come, adapt and overcome. Spend too much
> >> time worrying about it and all you'll have to show for it is ulcers.
> >> And doctor's bills. And more ulcers from worrying about whether your
> >> doctor had a C average or an A average. :) We either know things or we
> >> don't. That which we don't know, we either figure out or we don't. The
> >> market will move on and we will either be a part of it or we won't.
> >> There's personal stake in here too, never forget that!
> >>
> >> My two cents. (or 1.3 Euros that I still have left from Amsterdam!)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> *Scott Morris*, CCIE/x4/ (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service Provider) #4713,
> >>
> >> JNCIE-M #153, JNCIS-ER, CISSP, et al.
> >>
> >> JNCI-M, JNCI-ER
> >>
> >> evil_at_ine.com
> >>
> >>
> >> Internetwork Expert, Inc.
> >>
> >> http://www.InternetworkExpert.com
> >>
> >> Toll Free: 877-224-8987
> >>
> >> Outside US: 775-826-4344
> >>
> >>
> >> Knowledge is power.
> >>
> >> Power corrupts.
> >>
> >> Study hard and be Eeeeviiiil......
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Narbik Kocharians wrote:
> >>> I will be very surprised if Cisco adds CRSs and 7600s to the rack or
> KILL
> >>> the cert all together, but then again i have been surprised
> before.......for
> >>> few features here and there they will NOT kill the cert by adding 12K
> or
> >>> CRSs. If you go based on that philosophy, the R&S track is pretty bad
> as
> >>> well, who uses 3560s as their core? No matter where you go these days
> you
> >>> are going to see 6500s, 4948s, 3750s, VSS and from time to time 4500s,
> you
> >>> don't see them in the lab do you? They don t cost that much to Cisco
> but
> >>> they are NOT in the lab.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I can see them adding more 7200s, 1000s and may be god forbid ONE 7600
> >>> (Which i doubt), BUT i do not see them adding anything else, what would
> it
> >>> buys them? When you talk to people at Cisco you quickly realize that
> these
> >>> people understand that for the cert to work, people need to have the
> ability
> >>> to purchase the equipment, could you imagine if they emulate a TRUE
> provider
> >>> environment? Will IPexpert have the equipment to train the SP track? If
> so,
> >>> how many racks are they going to have? Forget IPexpert, who will have
> SP
> >>> racks? NOT me for sure. Unless Cisco puts up bunch of SP racks and
> rents
> >>> them to public for what we pay for a regular R&S rack.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> BTW, the cost of 7600s is NOT dirt cheap for Cisco, routers are
> routers, and
> >>> one department will charge the other, they need *to justify it*, just
> look
> >>> at the current R&S racks that are provided by Cisco for the 360
> program,
> >>> there are ONLY 32 of them, they are going to add more, but its NOT that
> >>> cheap or that easy when you have to justify it from the business
> >>> perspective.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> There are typically two different departments in the Provider network,
> the
> >>> PE/CE Eng. and the Core Eng. I think the current track is not missing
> that
> >>> much if any when it comes to PE/CE Eng. Now for the core they are
> missing
> >>> some stuff but it is NOT that big that a CCIE SP can't handle. I know
> the
> >>> next response will have a list of things that an SP CCIE did not have
> an
> >>> exposure to, but you always learn, you know enough to pick up what you
> have
> >>> not been exposed to.
> >>>
> >>> Let's NOT forget that normally in the core no matter where you go you
> >>> see Juniper as well. A CCIE SP will have to learn lots of hardware, BUT
> when
> >>> it comes to features, he/she will pick it up in no time. Another thing
> you
> >>> need to remember is that no matter how many CCIEs you have and no
> matter
> >>> what they do to the track, you still have to learn what the company
> that
> >>> just employed you has and what they do and how they do it and the
> reasons
> >>> why..
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> But again, we are all guessing and assuming here.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 10:35 AM, <nortic_at_hackermail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Marko, you can not lead if you don't want anyone to follow.
> Nine-tenths of
> >>>> education is encouragement - Anatole France
> >>>> Here is a theory: Inferior men boast about experience, Superior men
> boast
> >>>> about victories.
> >>>>
> >>>> There is no difference between running IOS on a P4 or a MPC7448. RFC's
> are
> >>>> CPU independent.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: Marko Milivojevic <markom_at_ipexpert.com>
> >>>> To: Roger Pfaeffli <rpf23543_at_gmail.com>
> >>>> Cc: Azar Ali <azarali1980_at_gmail.com>; Narbik Kocharians
> >>>>
> >>> <narbikk_at_gmail.com>;
> >>>
> >>>> Ashwin Iyer <ash.iyer_at_gmail.com>; Majonestx <majonestx_at_gmail.com>;
> Cisco
> >>>> certification <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
> >>>> Sent: Mon, Dec 7, 2009 3:31 pm
> >>>> Subject: Re: CCIE SP Changes
> >>>>
> >>>> I agree with all of the below, but it also comes down to "what does
> >>>> cert X represent".
> >>>>
> >>>> Do you really want to go to a certified cardio surgeon who has ... no
> >>>> experience, but hey, he's got Certified Heart Surgeon (20% or less
> >>>> chance of death)? No, me neither :-)
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Marko Milivojevic - CCIE #18427
> >>>> Senior Technical Instructor - IPexpert
> >>>>
> >>>> Mailto: markom_at_ipexpert.com
> >>>> Telephone: +1.810.326.1444
> >>>> Live Assistance, Please visit: http://www.ipexpert.com/chat
> >>>> eFax: +1.810.454.0130
> >>>>
> >>>> On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 13:25, Roger Pfaeffli <rpf23543_at_gmail.com
> >>>>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>> Hi Marko, somehow you are right but I think you agree with me, that a
> Cert
> >>>>>
> >>> is
> >>>
> >>>> still a Cert and some of the things are not really relevant to
> livenetwork.
> >>>>
> >>> So
> >>>
> >>>> how you want to study for them? Even if you have many years of
> experience,
> >>>>
> >>> if
> >>>
> >>>> you have never used Cell Mode MPLS for example it makes it difficult
> to
> >>>>
> >>> study
> >>>
> >>>> for it, isn't it? Normally you will not find all the Cert stuff in
> real
> >>>> networks.
> >>>>
> >>>>> To me, a big part of studying means hands on and training, training,
> >>>>>
> >>> training.
> >>>
> >>>> I think that only with that way you can see how it works and figure
> out
> >>>>
> >>> issues
> >>>
> >>>> and weakness. You learn how to troubleshoot and so on.
> >>>>
> >>>>> If you are lucky (as I am), you have CRS's, 7600's, ASR's and all
> other
> >>>>>
> >>> big
> >>>
> >>>> and expensive boxes in your lab, but what if you don't? Do you think
> >>>>
> >>> someone
> >>>
> >>>> with no access to these products should not have the chance to make a
> SP?
> >>>>
> >>>>> There are different point of views and we could discuss a long time.
> I
> >>>>>
> >>>> definitely agree that the tracks should be very close to the real
> world but
> >>>> there should somehow be the possibility to make "real live training".
> >>>>
> >>>>> This is very good possible also with the SP track...
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So let's see what's coming in future for SP :o)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Regards
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Roger
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -----UrsprC<ngliche Nachricht-----
> >>>>> Von: Marko Milivojevic [mailto:markom_at_ipexpert.com]
> >>>>> Gesendet: Montag, 7. Dezember 2009 13:39
> >>>>> An: Roger Pfaeffli
> >>>>> Cc: Azar Ali; Narbik Kocharians; Ashwin Iyer; Majonestx; Cisco
> >>>>>
> >>> certification
> >>>
> >>>>> Betreff: Re: CCIE SP Changes
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I don't understand why everyone brings up "end of home lab" as
> >>>>> something that is relevant. It's a SERVICE PROVIDER expert cert -
> none
> >>>>> of us can have that kind of lab at home. If you CAN have it, there is
> >>>>> something seriously wrong with the track. As someone who has worked
> >>>>> for almost 15 years in SP arena, I should know :-).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> When CCIE came to market and became prestigious, it was equally
> >>>>> expensive to prepare for it as it would be with "new" SP track.
> >>>>> Personally, I see nothing seriously wrong with that. Certificate
> needs
> >>>>> to be relevant, difficult and require dedication, study and
> experience
> >>>>> to obtain. If certificate doesn't have those attributes, it's as
> >>>>> useful as MCP Windows 98.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> Marko Milivojevic - CCIE #18427
> >>>>> Senior Technical Instructor - IPexpert
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Mailto: markom_at_ipexpert.com
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Telephone: +1.810.326.1444
> >>>>> Live Assistance, Please visit: http://www.ipexpert.com/chat
> >>>>> eFax: +1.810.454.0130
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 11:55, Roger Pfaeffli <rpf23543_at_gmail.com
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Well Marko, if you are right that would mean "the end" of home
> labs...
> >>>>>> ...at least for most of the students. I mean, imagine how much it
> would
> >>>>>>
> >>> cost
> >>>
> >>>> to make a home lab with 7600, ASR1000...
> >>>>
> >>>>>> I think even if you work with a SP, it could be difficult to get
> these
> >>>>>>
> >>> boxes
> >>>
> >>>> 1 year just for studying.
> >>>>
> >>>>>> I definitely agree, there should be some changes in the SP lab to
> bring
> >>>>>>
> >>> it up
> >>>
> >>>> to date, Cell Mode MPLS is (at least in my opinion) not really
> something we
> >>>> should learn as the "future technology". Additionally there is so much
> >>>>
> >>> L2VPN
> >>>
> >>>> stuff they should add.
> >>>>
> >>>>>> Apart from the fact that I hate the C7600 (evil QoS and other weird
> >>>>>>
> >>> stuff
> >>>
> >>>> depending on the Linecard), I hope that Cisco will change the
> blueprint in
> >>>>
> >>> that
> >>>
> >>>> way that it "can be affordable" to make a home-, or company lab.
> >>>>
> >>>>>> I would be very disappointed if they would shutdown this track...I
> mean,
> >>>>>>
> >>> they
> >>>
> >>>> should rather shutdown Storage than the SP track...but that's my
> personal
> >>>>
> >>> point
> >>>
> >>>> of view.
> >>>>
> >>>>>> Let's see what happens :o)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Roger
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> -----UrsprC<ngliche Nachricht-----
> >>>>>> Von: nobody_at_groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com] Im
> Auftrag von
> >>>>>>
> >>>> Marko Milivojevic
> >>>>
> >>>>>> Gesendet: Montag, 7. Dezember 2009 09:09
> >>>>>> An: Azar Ali
> >>>>>> Cc: Narbik Kocharians; Ashwin Iyer; Majonestx; Cisco certification
> >>>>>> Betreff: Re: CCIE SP Changes
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 07:50, Azar Ali <azarali1980_at_gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> As Narbik said, its impossible to add 7600/12000 series routers due
> to
> >>>>>>>
> >>> cost.
> >>>
> >>>>>>> So I don't expect too much change.B I'm curious to see whatB cisco
> can
> >>>>>>>
> >>> do
> >>>
> >>>> for
> >>>>
> >>>>>>> SP track apart from IOS,core knowledge,troubleshooting sections.
> Yeah,
> >>>>>>>
> >>> can
> >>>
> >>>>>>> could add a few more 7200's and probably some ISR's.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> I beg to differ. 7600 for Cisco are dirt cheap and all they would
> need
> >>>>>> are two per location. Add to that a couple of ASR1000 boxes,
> combined
> >>>>>> with 3-4 ME-3400 switches and you got yourself a pretty decent SP
> >>>>>> setup, unlike the one we have today.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> IB4m certain we are going to see either change comparable to what I
> >>>>>> described, or a complete shutdown of the track. All other tracks at
> the
> >>>>>> moment make sense relevance and technology-wise. SP is very out of
> >>>>>> date.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>> Marko Milivojevic - CCIE #18427
> >>>>>> Senior Technical Instructor - IPexpert
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Mailto: markom_at_ipexpert.com
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Telephone: +1.810.326.1444
> >>>>>> Live Assistance, Please visit: http://www.ipexpert.com/chat
> >>>>>> eFax: +1.810.454.0130
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> >>>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
> >>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> >>>>>>
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> >>>>
> >>>>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> >>>> Subscription information may be found at:
> >>>>
> >>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Narbik Kocharians
> >>> CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
> >>> www.MicronicsTraining.com
> >>> Sr. Technical Instructor
> >>> YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
> >>> Training And Remote Racks available
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
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> >>
> >>
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> >>
> >> _______________________________________________________________________
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> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > **Gitau
> >
> >
> > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >
> > _______________________________________________________________________
> > Subscription information may be found at:
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>
>
> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>
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Received on Mon Dec 07 2009 - 23:05:49 ART