Re: CCIE lab and VUE outsourcing

I agree with what John is saying though in much of the sense, simply because
as you state, well, when you interview the people, but lets stop there for a
moment, because what it comes down to is when a desk becomes too full of
resumes ALL with CCIE's, you are only going to grab some of the stack. So, you
may have been a person who honestly got yours, but you never get the chance to
as you say "make good business sense". It comes down to when there should only
be 10 legit resumes with a CCIE number to go through, you now have a stack of
100, where possibly 75 are just numbers.

I agree that if you have the chance to go face to face, its almost a win win
battle, but if you never get the opportunity cause the person is overwhelmed,
its a tragic day. The best example I can give on this was CCVP. It was hot
shit (excuse the language) about 2 and more years ago, now you say CCVP and
they are like YEAH OK, get in like with the other 300 banging at my door.

Just my feelings.

-----Original Message-----
From: Atlanta CCIE <atlantaccie_at_gmail.com>
To: Joseph L. Brunner <joe_at_affirmedsystems.com>; John Pelletier
<john.pelletier_at_altima-group.com>; ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
<ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
Sent: Sun, Oct 25, 2009 8:37 pm
Subject: Re: CCIE lab and VUE outsourcing

Agreed!

On 10/25/09, Joseph L. Brunner <joe_at_affirmedsystems.com> wrote:
> my point again...
>
>>Who wants to compete in the tightening job market with someone who cheated
>> to
> get thiers?
>
>
> I often Interview fellow CCIE's for full-time positions at clients (I'm the
> firm's tech screen)
>
> If the person can't speak about the technology well enough to convince me
> they
> have developed solutions that make good business sense by using it, or they
> don't show good judgment in the
> Design and engineering process, whether they are CCIE #1 or CCIE #1,000,000
> won't matter. We recently passed on a few CCIE's that just didn't seem
very
> good at practical application of the technology in favor of another
> candidate
> who didn't have the number, but had good rationale and good points to argue
> for their method to approach issues I presented to them (that were faced
and
> solved in that shop)
>
> So I don't think you have to worry... When you are able to actually offer
> something other than "hey I passed the lab" you'll always have work.
>
> -Joe
>
> From: John Pelletier [mailto:john.pelletier_at_altima-group.com]
> Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2009 7:10 PM
> To: ccielab_at_groupstudy.com; Joseph L. Brunner
> Subject: RE: CCIE lab and VUE outsourcing
>
> I would suspect many who have honestly earned thier CCIE number and those
> who
> are honestly working towards one would be interested in Cisco committing to
> keeping the fraud out of the process as much as possible. Who wants to
> compete
> in the tightening job market with someone who cheated to get thiers? And
> don't
> say well they will fail in the job place as that is certainly not going to
> be
> the case in the many of the instances.
>
>
> --- On Sun, 10/25/09, Joseph L. Brunner <joe_at_affirmedsystems.com> wrote:
>
> From: Joseph L. Brunner <joe_at_affirmedsystems.com>
> Subject: RE: CCIE lab and VUE outsourcing
> To: "John Pelletier" <john.pelletier_at_altima-group.com>,
> "ccielab_at_groupstudy.com" <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
> Date: Sunday, October 25, 2009, 6:55 PM
> Honestly,
>
> Who cares?
>
> If this is such a big deal, you need something bigger to focus your energy
> on...
>
> CCIE, MCSE? MCA, CCA? MCDBA, ORACLE ACE?
>
> Let me hear you speak about your project plan and win a business's
financial
> commitment to it.
>
> That friend is IT, worrying about anything else and you're doing it
wrong...
>
> -Joe
> #19366
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From:
>
nobody@groupstudy.com<http://us.mc11.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nobody@grou
> pstudy.com>
>
[mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com<http://us.mc11.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=nob
> ody_at_groupstudy.com>] On Behalf Of John Pelletier
> Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2009 5:53 PM
> To:
>
ccielab@groupstudy.com<http://us.mc11.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=ccielab@gr
> oupstudy.com>
> Subject: CCIE lab and VUE outsourcing
>
> I have read from others this may be something in the offing in the future.
> This would be a huge mistake for Cisco, the fraud associated with this
would
> make the CCIE an equivalent of an MCSE for cisco gear. The current fraud is
> bad enough.
>
> I personally witnessed this in Iraq when the "proctor' offer to hook me up
> with people who would pay for me to take exams for them AND sell the
> complete
> Q&As to the exams. I was doing a CCSP at the time, I did not take the offer
> and reported this situation to both Cisco and Vue and absolutely nothing
was
> done. I reported it multiple times over a few years with the same result.
> This
> is not an isolated situation as 2 other people bought the site from him and
> guess what? Did the exact same thing. I have heard this is a common
practice
> in some of the newer testing locations that have been added somewhat
> recently.
>
> I had a guy who worked for me fail the CCNA 5 times before the "test
center"
> was in place and surprise surprise he passes his CCVP the first go around
in
> 2
> weeks so you tell me. When I asked him about it he refused to admit he
> cheated or deny it so there you go.
>
> As for cost of running the test centers either Cisco wants to protect the
> integrity of thier certs or it does not it is that simple.
>
>
> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net<http://www.ccie.net/>
>
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