Re: cisco lab safe

Sorry Scott, i thought you were talking about me; Well, who cares about what
he says? Does he offer R&S these days?

On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 6:45 PM, Michael Jones <majonestx_at_gmail.com> wrote:

> ****waits for someone to come in and spin this convo into how the OEQ arent
> fair.
>
> :)
>
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 8:32 PM, Terry Vinson <consultant_at_tnclimited.com
> >wrote:
>
> > When it's all said and done. We all know who makes CCIE's. A student
> with
> > a desire to endure the marathon (gauntlet), and the
> instructor/instructors
> > that make all the difference for them. NO amount of corporate
> positioning
> > is going to change that. No amount of marketing is going to make someone
> > internalize (and know) this amount of information in half the time it
> takes
> > now. What works for some will not work for others. There is no cookie
> > cutter program that will ever turn out the caliber of CCIE's that Narbik,
> > IPexpert and INE have made separately to date.
> >
> > Diversity is strength in this business.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Scott Morris wrote:
> >
> >> You weren't on the original distribution, or the writer of the direct
> >> e-mail I was replying to... So I don't think so. ;)
> >>
> >> It's all good. Fun to watch.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> *Scott Morris*, CCIE/x4/ (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service Provider) #4713,
> >>
> >> JNCIE-M #153, JNCIS-ER, CISSP, et al.
> >>
> >> JNCI-M, JNCI-ER
> >>
> >> evil_at_ine.com
> >>
> >>
> >> Internetwork Expert, Inc.
> >>
> >> http://www.InternetworkExpert.com <http://www.internetworkexpert.com/>
> >>
> >> Toll Free: 877-224-8987
> >>
> >> Outside US: 775-826-4344
> >>
> >>
> >> Knowledge is power.
> >>
> >> Power corrupts.
> >>
> >> Study hard and be Eeeeviiiil......
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Narbik Kocharians wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> I am sorry Scott, who are you talking to? are you talking to me? Who is
> >>> breaking NDA?
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 5:07 PM, Scott Morris <smorris_at_ine.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> It's not only not "fair" (isn't all fair in love, war and marketing?)
> >>>> but it's also not accurate. Some of us merely adhere to NDAs better
> >>>> than others do, and don't attempt to rub noses in things.
> >>>>
> >>>> But it's all in the name of fun, right?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> *Scott Morris*, CCIE/x4/ (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service Provider)
> #4713,
> >>>>
> >>>> JNCIE-M #153, JNCIS-ER, CISSP, et al.
> >>>>
> >>>> JNCI-M, JNCI-ER
> >>>>
> >>>> evil_at_ine.com
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Internetwork Expert, Inc.
> >>>>
> >>>> http://www.InternetworkExpert.com<http://www.internetworkexpert.com/><
> http://www.internetworkexpert.com/>
> >>>>
> >>>> Toll Free: 877-224-8987
> >>>>
> >>>> Outside US: 775-826-4344
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Knowledge is power.
> >>>>
> >>>> Power corrupts.
> >>>>
> >>>> Study hard and be Eeeeviiiil......
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Dark Fiber wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> I can't see that being fair to bring up right now... What does that
> >>>>> tell people who want to get started today? Wait "X" amount of time
> >>>>> because their is a change coming down the line? If there is a major
> >>>>> change coming down the line why isn't this being told to us right
> now?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 7:03 PM, Brad Ellis <brad_at_ccbootcamp.com
> >>>>> <mailto:brad_at_ccbootcamp.com>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Scott is comparing a grey-market program to the Cisco authorized
> 360
> >>>>> learning program. There are some major changes coming to the CCIE
> >>>>> lab
> >>>>> exam. The Cisco 360 Program already has the "inside scoop" on the
> >>>>> changes coming down the pipe. The grey market folks don't have
> >>>>> that. If
> >>>>> you want to prepare for your lab exam properly, it's going to
> become
> >>>>> more and more apparent that the 360 program is the way to go. (One
> >>>>> of
> >>>>> the big reasons why we joined the program!)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> This announcement is only one of many things to come. There will
> >>>>> be more
> >>>>> and more differentiators that keep making the Cisco 360 Learning
> >>>>> Program
> >>>>> increasingly advantageous as the best option for CCIE training
> >>>>> over grey
> >>>>> market competition.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> thanks,
> >>>>> Brad Ellis
> >>>>> CCIE#5796 (R&S / Security)
> >>>>> CCSI# 30482
> >>>>> CEO / President
> >>>>> CCBOOTCAMP - Cisco Learning Solutions Partner (CLSP)
> >>>>> Email: brad_at_ccbootcamp.com <mailto:brad_at_ccbootcamp.com>
> >>>>> Toll Free: 877-654-2243
> >>>>> International: +1-702-968-5100
> >>>>> Skype: skype:ccbootcamp?call
> >>>>> FAX: +1-702-446-8012
> >>>>> YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>> From: nobody_at_groupstudy.com <mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com>
> >>>>> [mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com <mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com>] On
> >>>>> Behalf Of
> >>>>> Scott Morris
> >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 3:41 PM
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> > To: armylegionmedic_at_aol.com <mailto:armylegionmedic_at_aol.com>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Cc: darkfiber08_at_gmail.com <mailto:darkfiber08_at_gmail.com>;
> >>>>> dane.newman_at_gmail.com <mailto:dane.newman_at_gmail.com>;
> >>>>> ccielab_at_groupstudy.com <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
> >>>>> Subject: Re: cisco lab safe
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Excellent question on that. The CCIE Essentials, though, is
> exactly
> >>>>> that from them, the workbooks + videos. So I was putting out the
> >>>>> option. It simply happened to be the least expensive option from
> >>>>> us.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> By the way, according to
> >>>>> https://cisco.hosted.jivesoftware.com/docs/DOC-5857, I was
> >>>>> incorrect on
> >>>>> my math. You must take ALL FOUR (4 x 349 = $1,400) AND score at
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> least
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> 80% on one of them. So their minimum investment just became
> $3,995
> >>>>> +
> >>>>> $1,400 = $5,395.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Slice it however you want. It's marketing, and I most certainly
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> won't
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> fault anyone for that! As always, people are capable of making
> >>>>> their
> >>>>> own decisions on things! Just do the math.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I'm not downplaying the program itself. I know too many of the
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> people
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> involved and respect their capabilities all around. Not all
> vendors
> >>>>> selling the 360 will be the same, however, which puts a kludge
> into
> >>>>> things... but as long as you know what you're getting into, you
> are
> >>>>> welcome to select whichever flavor of apple works best for you!
> >>>>> Some
> >>>>> may be more expensive than others despite the pretty sign next to
> >>>>> them!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ;)
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> *Scott Morris*, CCIE/x4/ (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service Provider)
> >>>>> #4713,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> JNCIE-M #153, JNCIS-ER, CISSP, et al.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> JNCI-M, JNCI-ER
> >>>>>
> >>>>> evil_at_ine.com <mailto:evil_at_ine.com>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Internetwork Expert, Inc.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> http://www.InternetworkExpert.com<http://www.internetworkexpert.com/>
> <
> >>>>> http://www.internetworkexpert.com/>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Toll Free: 877-224-8987
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Outside US: 775-826-4344
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Knowledge is power.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Power corrupts.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Study hard and be Eeeeviiiil......
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> armylegionmedic_at_aol.com <mailto:armylegionmedic_at_aol.com> wrote:
> >>>>> > I mean, maybe this is just me, but the only price that was cheap
> >>>>> > enough to beat Cisco's deal was a CoD and Workkooks, so we arent
> >>>>> > really comparing Apples to Apples are we? If we were to look
> >>>>> apples to
> >>>>> > apples or maybe like a Granny Smith vs. Mt. Washington Apple, I
> >>>>> think
> >>>>> > that the Cisco 360 offer is looking pretty tempting. The only
> part
> >>>>> > that I would have to really say competes is the free re-sits.
> >>>>> This is
> >>>>> > all IMO, but maybe I am misreading something.
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > -----Original Message-----
> >>>>> > From: Dark Fiber <darkfiber08_at_gmail.com
> >>>>> <mailto:darkfiber08_at_gmail.com>>
> >>>>> > To: Scott Morris <smorris_at_ine.com <mailto:smorris_at_ine.com>>
> >>>>> > Cc: Dane Newman <dane.newman_at_gmail.com
> >>>>> <mailto:dane.newman_at_gmail.com>>; Cisco certification
> >>>>> > <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>>
> >>>>> > Sent: Tue, Sep 15, 2009 3:25 pm
> >>>>> > Subject: Re: cisco lab safe
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > If I read that right $3500 and the price of a mock lab might be
> >>>>> worth
> >>>>> it for
> >>>>> > a $1400 lab voucher if you fail. Anyone else get the same or did
> I
> >>>>> misread
> >>>>> > it?
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 6:13 PM, Scott Morris <smorris_at_ine.com
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> > <mailto:smorris_at_ine.com>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > > Ok.... So let's do some math on this...
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> > > CIERS1 = $3,995
> >>>>> > > CIERS2 = $4,500
> >>>>> > > Essentials = $4,550
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> > > Plus an Assessment lab (minimum 1, possibly more) = $349
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> > > So at a BARE MINIMUM you are looking at $3,995 + $349 = $4,345
> >>>>> that
> >>>>> you
> >>>>> > > have to spend in order to get that.
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> > > For INE's pricing, a bootcamp costs $2,995 (not including any
> >>>>> > > discounts). The mock lab workshop is $3,995 again not
> counting
> >>>>> > > discounts. The lab workbook set + CoD bundle = $825 + 1,695
> or
> >>>>> $2,520
> >>>>> > > (not including any discounts). A mock lab (minimum 1,
> possibly
> >>>>> more) =
> >>>>> > > $129.
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> > > So on price point alone, you have a minimum comparable
> >>>>> spending (not
> >>>>> > > including discounts) of $2,649. That's a grand difference
> >>>>> there of
> >>>>> > > $1,696, so you can spring for another lab, not need
> >>>>> pre-qualification
> >>>>> > > AND save an extra $296 to use towards your
> >>>>> airfare/hotel/food/whatever....
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> > > Oh yeah, and you don't get re-sits in the 360 program, you can
> >>>>> attend
> >>>>> > > our classes as many times as you'd like to and whenever you'd
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> like
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> to.
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> > > So I'm really thinking that this kind of promotion alone is
> not
> >>>>> going to
> >>>>> > > swing someone one way or the other, at least unless they don't
> >>>>> do
> >>>>> math.
> >>>>> > > But I'm sure if you work with our sales department, we would
> >>>>> be more
> >>>>> > > than happy to charge you more money and simply spring for a
> lab
> >>>>> attempt
> >>>>> > > for you based on certain criteria and select vendors only.
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> > > If you have any questions on this, feel free to contact me
> >>>>> offline,
> >>>>> I'd
> >>>>> > > be more than happy to cover options with you. I don't see a
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> point
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> of
> >>>>> > > dragging this on and on through a technical list (e.g.
> >>>>> non-marketing
> >>>>> list).
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> > > *Scott Morris*, CCIE/x4/ (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service
> >>>>> Provider)
> >>>>> #4713,
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> > > JNCIE-M #153, JNCIS-ER, CISSP, et al.
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> > > JNCI-M, JNCI-ER
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> > > evil_at_ine.com <mailto:evil_at_ine.com>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> > > >
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> > > Internetwork Expert, Inc.
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> > > http://www.InternetworkExpert.com<http://www.internetworkexpert.com/>
> <
> >>>>> http://www.internetworkexpert.com/>
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> > > Toll Free: 877-224-8987
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> > > Outside US: 775-826-4344
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> > > Knowledge is power.
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> > > Power corrupts.
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> > > Study hard and be Eeeeviiiil......
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> > > Dane Newman wrote:
> >>>>> > > > I got the following email below from cisco. All I can say
> >>>>> is imo
> >>>>> this
> >>>>> > > will
> >>>>> > > > make it harder on 3rd party vendors sadly that do offer
> >>>>> quality
> >>>>> training.
> >>>>> > > > The chance to retake the lab for free is worth its weight in
> >>>>> gold
> >>>>> for all
> >>>>> > > > the stress relief it can bring.
> >>>>> > > >
> >>>>> > > > Dane
> >>>>> > > >
> >>>>> > > >
> >>>>> > > >
> >>>>> > > > Cisco Lab Safe Promotion: Protect Your Training Investment
> >>>>> > > > Learning_at_Cisco is pleased to introduce the Cisco Lab Safe
> >>>>> promotion. The
> >>>>> > > > Cisco Lab Safe promotion allows qualifying Cisco. 360
> Learning
> >>>>> Program
> >>>>> > > for
> >>>>> > > > CCIE. Routing & Switching students who don't pass their
> >>>>> first CCIE
> >>>>> lab
> >>>>> > > exam
> >>>>> > > > attempt, to retake the CCIE lab exam (a $1,400 US Value) at
> no
> >>>>> additional
> >>>>> > > > cost.
> >>>>> > > > The Cisco 360 Learning Program for R&S guides engineers who
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> have
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> three to
> >>>>> > > > five years of networking experience through an effective,
> >>>>> job-relevant,
> >>>>> > > and
> >>>>> > > > proven program to build expert-level skills and to prepare
> >>>>> for the
> >>>>> > > rigorous
> >>>>> > > > Cisco CCIE R&S certification exams. Together, the Cisco
> 360
> >>>>> Learning
> >>>>> > > > Program for CCIE R&S and the Cisco Lab Safe promotion
> provide
> >>>>> added
> >>>>> > > > assurance in the quality and value of your training
> >>>>> investment.
> >>>>> > > > How the Cisco Lab Safe Promotion Works:
> >>>>> > > > Students must meet the following criteria in order to be
> >>>>> eligible
> >>>>> for the
> >>>>> > > > Cisco Lab Safe promotion:
> >>>>> > > > A recommendation from their instructor
> >>>>> > > > Completed the Cisco 360 Learning Program for CCIE R&S
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> Essentials
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Package
> >>>>> > > or
> >>>>> > > > a CIERS instructor-led workshop
> >>>>> > > > Scored 80% or better on one of the CIERS 1-4 performance
> >>>>> assessments
> >>>>> > > > Only select Authorized Cisco Learning Partners offer the
> >>>>> Cisco 360
> >>>>> > > Learning
> >>>>> > > > Program curriculum and Cisco Lab Safe promotion.
> >>>>> > > > Find out more about Cisco Lab Safe promotion and the
> official
> >>>>> terms and
> >>>>> > > > conditions on the Cisco Learning Network.
> >>>>> > > >
> >>>>> > > > Subscribe to CiscoUnsubscribe from CiscoPrivacy Statement
> >>>>> > > > Subscribe to receive emails and newsletters from Cisco.
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> >>>>>
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> >>>>> > > > tool at www.cisco.com/go/certsupport
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> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> > > > >
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> > > > Copyright (C) 2008, Cisco Systems, Inc. All rights reserved.
> >>>>> Cisco, the
> >>>>> > > > Cisco logo, and Cisco Systems are registered trademarks of
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> Cisco
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Systems,
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> >>>>> > > > Cisco Systems, Inc. 170 West Tasman Drive, San Jose,
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> >>>>> 95134
> >>>>> > > ATTN:
> >>>>> > > > Corporate Marketing (SJC08/3/4)
> >>>>> > > >
> >>>>> > > >
> >>>>> > > > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
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> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> >>>>
> >>>>
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-- 
Narbik Kocharians
CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
www.MicronicsTraining.com
Sr. Technical Instructor
Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net