Re: The State of the CCIE Training Industry

It helps if rackhire is affordable to be honest. A busy day at work, kids at
home. That rack session you had to schedule in advance has to get blown off. A
write off in terms of outlay.

Gone are the days when C&W gave chaps time on works time to do labs I'm
afraid. Evenings and weekends for most of us and that doesn't always go to
plan!
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Narbik Kocharians
  To: Gary Duncanson
  Cc: Persio Pucci ; ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
  Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 9:13 PM
  Subject: Re: The State of the CCIE Training Industry

  No R&S rack should cost more than $450 per month.

  On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 12:44 PM, Gary Duncanson
<gary.duncanson_at_googlemail.com> wrote:

    Some of us regular guys always pay list price for rack rental and
workbooks regardless of the options available. It adds up to thousands of
dollars. But I guess some of us are old fashioned like that :)

    Lots of chatter about all this sort of thing on the list of late. I don't
pretend to understand what it's all about but I hope it all gets straightened
out. I tanked on anymore labprep tonight. Really busy day at work today.
    ----- Original Message ----- From: "Persio Pucci" <persio_at_gmail.com>
    To: "Cisco certification" <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
    Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 7:49 PM

    Subject: Re: The State of the CCIE Training Industry

      You know what? You have a good point there... I also think that the
"pirate"
      would not buy it anyway... but would a regular guy buy it if he had
access
      to the "pirated" material? What if it costed $1000? And how about $100?
Or
      even $10 as Darby mentioned... Maybe the problem is the price point?
idk...

      As for choosing INE, it was down to cost (yes, our pocket does have a
bottom
      too!!!)... and besides I tried to find out about IPexpert material
(which
      had almost the same price) but did not hear back from them, so I chose
INE.
      Their approach is not my personal favorite, but they were responsive on
my
      inquiry... (guess everybody else was out on Networkers Live?)

      On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 3:23 PM, Luan Nguyen <luan_at_netcraftsmen.net>
wrote:

        IMHO, choosing INE for SP only when you have a good understanding of
the
        blueprint. For starter, IEMentor, CCbootcamp, and IPExpert are
probably
        much better. I like the proctor guide from IPExpert for
security...explain
        stuff to you. But that's just me, other people from my company like
        INE...now that Scott is there, we probably could get good discount?
:)
        You guys have almost 10K every year...you can do more for the
training
        community:) take a bootcamp, buy something more expensive :) tell
your
        coworkers...since you seem to be under a nice boss.
        Piracy is not that bad...for guys like you, you don't need to pirate
        anything. For people who pirate stuff, they wouldn't buy them anyhow
so
        trainers don't lose much there.

        Luan Nguyen
        Chesapeake NetCraftsmen, LLC.
        http://www3.netcraftsmen.net

        -----Original Message-----
        From: nobody_at_groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com] On Behalf
Of
        Persio Pucci
        Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 1:27 PM
        To: Cisco certification
        Subject: Re: The State of the CCIE Training Industry

         Brian,

        please keep INE alive, I just recently bought the SP material and I'd
love
        to see that updated a little... :)

        While saying that, I think the training vendors should ALSO invest
(more)
        on
        the other tracks... if you are just a newcomer you might think it's
R&S or
        nothing. I know Cisco's next blow is the Voice 360... but hey, there
are
        other tracks too... why not give them a little (more) attention?
         *(And just for the record, I (well, the company) bought the R&S
material
        as
        well in the past... 5 printed and 3 eletronics sets if I am not
mistaken.
        I'm doing my part helping you guys :D)*
        I agree with Darby, however, that piracy is the damnation of any
training
        material (not Cisco-exclusive). Cannot think of a way out of it,
however...
        :(

        On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 1:11 AM, Brian Dennis <
        bdennis_at_internetworkexpert.com> wrote:

> As an FYI I'm not dead as rumored in the previous email ;-)
>
> I'll post an update to our blog tonight or tomorrow letting people
know
> what's going on at INE since a few people seem to be making up some
> crazy
> off the wall rumors. Basically we're just starting the process of
        opening
> up additional operations in the Seattle, WA area where I now
currently
> live. Although Reno, NV is a nice place the amount of high tech >
workers
> is very limited to say the least. This wasn't a problem when we
were
> smaller but now we can't continue to grow with the limited high
tech
> workforce in the Reno area.
>
> In order to continue to grow we need to have offices in an area that
> has
        a
> good technical workforce to select from. Just trying to find a
good
> full-time PHP web developer or CCNA in Reno is a real struggle.
This > of
> course isn't the case in the Seattle area. Additionally flights to
the
> Seattle area for students attending classes are far better than the
> limited selection of flights to the Reno area. Also the selection
of
> hotels for students is far better here in Seattle over Reno.
>
> Brian Dennis, CCIEx5 #2210 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/SP/Voice)
> bdennis_at_internetworkexpert.com
>
> Internetwork Expert, Inc.
> http://www.InternetworkExpert.com
<http://www.internetworkexpert.com/><
        http://www.internetworkexpert.com/>
> Toll Free: 877-224-8987 x 703
> Outside US: 775-826-4344 x 703
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Anthony Faria" <tfaria72_at_gmail.com>
> Sent: Sun, July 12, 2009 21:01
> Subject:Re: The State of the CCIE Training Industry
>
>
> Were the blog hits low this week Darby ? LOL Really bro if you
spent > as
> much
> time writing as you did studying you would be done with multiple
ccie. > I
> think you are a skilled wirter I think you should apply at a e IT
        magazine
> or something. Not trying to slam you bro but sometimes you are over
the
> top.
> Things change and so do companies it is a fact of life. The stuff
you
> originally bought was probably two lab versions ago. So if 5 years >
later
> the
> company goes under well shit you got your money worth. So please
keep
        your
> posts to your blog on this stuff . If you are going to help and
answer
> questions step up do some good instead of being war time media >
coverage.
        I
> seen Waynes alien Baby damn he is ugly!!! He sounded like Scott from
> the
> audio series though LOL JK Scott.
>
> Tony
>
> On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 11:05 AM, Darby Weaver
<ccie.weaver_at_gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> > Hey don't take it quite so personal. Well I'd better take a step
> > back
        on
> > that one as you are currently working for one of the companies
that
        other
> > companies are talking about lately.
> >
> > What I saw at the conference was a certain sense of fear of what
is
> > happening and there is a lot of fallout from that fear and > >
uncertainty.
> >
> > Some said InternetworkExpert is going through some rough times and
> > the
> only
> > two viable major companies left were: The Cisco CCIE 360
Consortium
        and
> > IPExpert.
> >
> > Narbik joined the 360 it seems.
> >
> > InternetworkExpert may be perceived as having loss a certain sense
of
> > direction - I'm just summarizing here - The question that was used
> > for
        a
> > basis is "What's happening with Brian Dennis and the CCIE 2.0
        Program?".
> >
> > Don't take it that badly - I just gave you insight into what your
> > competition is thinking and you should consider my words
carefully.
> >
> > It was that line of reasoning that got me worried a bit last
night.
> >
> > Technically IE has the killer product - The PolyLabs and they are
> > quite
> > innovative, creative, and quite possibly the single most act of >
> genius
> > created in a while. Simple plan and very nice exectution.
> >
> > IPExpert is expanding its borders.
> >
> > Cisco CCIE 360 is doing the same (kinda reminds me of pirates on
the
        high
> > seas but hey it I'd hope someone is making money from it - ).
Hah!
        Hey
> > they had to get the instructors from somewhere.
> >
> > I'm kinda wondering when Scott Morris is going to go independent
> actually.
> > You of all people have the name, reputation, sincerity, and
technical
> > expertise to pull it off. And you get back to people and
everyone
        know
> > it.
> >
> >
> >
> > I recall one instuctor saying he earned in 5 weeks at one point
what
        took
> > him almost a whole year to earn working for an employer. And of >
> course
> he
> > is a very passionate instructor too.
> >
> > I kind of see one side trying to pick up all the chips or cash in
the
> chips
> > that don't play the game.
> >
> >
> > The piracy thing is the single biggest attack on the CCIE program
and
        it
> is
> > a hard one to beat. Companies want to sell en masse and as long
as
        that
> is
> > working - great. However, we have a very limited market and only
so
        many
> > candiates at a given time.
> >
> > I'm trying to say the Troubleshooting Section if delivered in
classes
        and
> > in
> > classes alone, then it may help turn this thing around. But it
won't
> work
> > if all companies and individuals don't come together to nip it in
the
> bud.
> >
> >
> > Hey just an opinion.
> >
> > If trainers are selling 10,000 copies electroinically instead of
say > > 10
> or
> > even 100, then by all means carry on.
> >
> > If you ain't selling enough copies to justify the production costs
> > (as
> has
> > been said to me privately), then you might want to take my
observance
> into
> > account.
> >
> > Of course copy machines abound - but the real output ought to be
in > > the
> > class room itself and presentation.
> >
> > Scott you are quite legendary at this and you of all people would
be > > a
> > person to profit from such a situation.
> >
> > Time are changing. Sorry to kick things back to the stone ages,
but
> > security is not quite so secure on intellectual property these
days.
> > Handle
> > with care.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 1:22 PM, Scott Morris <smorris_at_ine.com> >
> wrote:
> >
> > > So your shock and awe about two companies left in the end was
meant
        to
> > > educate everyone that people stealing the digital downloads is
bad?
> > that's
> > > a very strange way of delivering that message.
> > >
> > > And no, I haven't read your wiki. Didn't know you had one
because > > > I
> > > haven't really had the need to Google you and find out what
things
        were
> > or
> > > were not posted by/about you.
> > >
> > > Next thing you know you're going to go with all-out > > >
exclusive-photos
        of
> > > Wayne Lawson's Alien Baby. And I just really don't think
that's
> > necessary.
> > > That's a private family matter.
> > >
> > > ;)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > *Scott Morris*, CCIE*x4* (R&amp;amp;S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service
> Provider)
> #4713,
> > >
> > > JNCIE-M #153, JNCIS-ER, CISSP, et al.
> > >
> > > JNCI-M, JNCI-ER
> > >
> > > evil_at_ine.com
> > >
> > >
> > > Internetwork Expert, Inc.
> > >
> > >
http://www.InternetworkExpert.com<http://www.internetworkexpert.com/>
        <http://www.internetworkexpert.com/><
> http://www.internetworkexpert.com/>
> > >
> > > Toll Free: 877-224-8987
> > >
> > > Outside US: 775-826-4344
> > >
> > >
> > > Knowledge is power.
> > >
> > > Power corrupts.
> > >
> > > Study hard and be Eeeeviiiil......
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Darby Weaver wrote:
> > >
> > > FYI -
> > >
> > > I'm not so much concerned with Brian Dennis and whether or not
he's
> still
> > > with IE, I would hope he is, but if he's not I do not see such
a
> talented
> > > individual being without options.
> > >
> > > I'm not so much as concerned about my nose and whether or not it
is
> > broken
> > > or not. (I guess someone never read my Wiki).
> > >
> > > I am concerned about my general investment in the CCIE Program.
> > > That
> is
> > the
> > > point of the matter.
> > >
> > >
> > > I am concerned when I see CCIE Instructors and Content
Developers
> > speaking
> > > of no longer being able to make a living at their expectations
in
        this
> > > industry. This concerns me and if you have invested money in
some > > > of
> > these
> > > programs and have a vested interest then it may or may not
concern
        you.
> > >
> > > The tabloid thing catches the eye - but the real matter is that
> > > with
> the
> > > advent of technology - people are taking advantage of the ease
of
> > downloads
> > > and literally bankrupting an otherwise thriving industry.
> > >
> > >
> > > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> > >
> > >
        _____________________________________________________________________
__
> > > Subscription information may be found at:
> > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> >
> >
> > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >
> >
Received on Wed Jul 15 2009 - 21:27:51 ART