Re: The Reason for failing?

Agreed, Narbik. The point I was hoping to make in a follow-up email (before
I got trumped by Petr's accomplishments) was that it doesn't matter if it is
the first or the tenth attempt, on the day you passed you became a CCIE and
that's the benchmark. It doesn't matter where you start or how many bumps
there were in the journey, a pass is a pass. Vendors have only a minor part
to play in that it is the marriage of the right materials at the right time
to the specific candidate that helps, but the candidate's motivation and
aptitude is a much bigger element in the mix.

On 6/12/09 5:56 PM, "Narbik Kocharians" <narbikk_at_gmail.com> wrote:

> Guys/Girls
>
> Passing on the first go has some luck involved, the luck is that you guessed
> what they wanted correctly, so that should NOT be the issue here. I don't
> know how the subject turned around to this?
> I have passed on first attempt and i am the first to tell you guys that it
> was LUCK.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 5:48 PM, Wayne Lawson <groupstudy_at_ipexpert.com>wrote:
>
>> Ut oh, Jared - sounds like a challenge! ;-). I don't know though - Petr is
>> sharp!.....
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Wayne A. Lawson II - CCIE #5244
>> President & Founder - IPexpert, Inc.
>> Email: wlawson_at_ipexpert.com
>> Mobile: 810.334.1564
>>
>> :: Message sent from iPhone.
>>
>> On Jun 12, 2009, at 8:31 PM, Brian McGahan <
>> bmcgahan_at_internetworkexpert.com> wrote:
>>
>> Petr Lapukhov is 4 for 4 in R&S, Security, Service Provider, and Voice. I
>>> think his goal in life is to make the rest of us look bad ;)
>>>
>>> Brian McGahan, CCIE #8593 (R&S/SP/Security)
>>> bmcgahan_at_INE.com
>>>
>>> Internetwork Expert, Inc.
>>> http://www.INE.com <http://www.ine.com/>
>>>
>>> On Jun 12, 2009, at 7:09 PM, Jared Scrivener <jscrivener_at_ipexpert.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> This is getting silly. Every vendor has students who pass on the first
>>>> attempt, some on the second and some on the third. If the first attempt is
>>>> so important, I'm keen to know if any other instructors have passed all
>>>> their labs first go. Anyone? If not, it seems like that should be my new
>>>> marketing angle. That said, I wouldn't have done it every time without
>>>> IPexpert, that much I'm sure of.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>> Jared Scrivener CCIE #16983
>>>>
>>>> On Jun 12, 2009, at 1:45 PM, Narbik Kocharians <narbikk_at_gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> All,
>>>>>
>>>>> I like to congratulate 2 of my students that passed the exam on their
>>>>> first
>>>>> attempt, these guys were in my Poland boot camp 5 months ago and they
>>>>> also
>>>>> repeated my boot camp three weeks ago as per my recommendation. They
>>>>> followed my recommendations, and the end result is that they passed the
>>>>> lab.
>>>>> I believe you need to dig through each protocol, one at a time, and once
>>>>> you
>>>>> examine the hairs within that protocol, and you are able to answer all
>>>>> of
>>>>> YOUR questions, then, you are ready.
>>>>>
>>>>> Once again congratulations to:
>>>>>
>>>>> Dominick Nowicki 24543
>>>>> Mariusz Trojanowski 24551
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 1:24 PM, Andrew Bruce Caslow <
>>>>> abcaslow_at_netmasterclass.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Sameer,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Along with mastering the inner-workings and behavior of specific
>>>>>> protocols,
>>>>>> what we have seen over the years is: successful CCIE candidates must
>>>>>> also
>>>>>> formulate a highly structured problem-solving AND verification
>>>>>> approach.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To get CCIE candidates in the correct frame of mind for starting the
>>>>>> long
>>>>>> journey of preparing for the CCIE lab, we begin the entire process by
>>>>>> making
>>>>>> this assertion that implicitly stressly the need for creating a
>>>>>> structured
>>>>>> problem solving approach:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "CCIE candidates, we are going to prepare you to fulfill 'minimally
>>>>>> described' configuration and troubleshooting tasks".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We feel that this statement captures the essence of CCIE level
>>>>>> problems:
>>>>>> they are configuration and/or troubleshooting tasks that are "minimally
>>>>>> described" BUT they might contain explicitly described restrictions.
>>>>>> Regardless of how minimally described a CCIE level configuration task
>>>>>> is, a
>>>>>> CCIE candidate should be able to solve the task. They should know what
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> look for and know what questions to ask.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In the Cisco 360 program, the problem solving approach we recommend for
>>>>>> these "minimally described" types of problems is called "issue spotting
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> options analysis". Also, due to the strong influence of Bob Sinclair
>>>>>> one of
>>>>>> our Cisco 360 master instructors and lead content developers, heavy
>>>>>> emphasis
>>>>>> is placed on verification of a task, even more so than on the
>>>>>> configuration
>>>>>> of the task itself.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> By using a consistent problem solving and learning approach, CCIE
>>>>>> candidates
>>>>>> can use the same approach for each new protocol and technology they
>>>>>> learn.
>>>>>> While the technical topics may change, the problem solving and learning
>>>>>> approach remains constant.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is why we say the CCIE lab is as much about measuring the mastery
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> protocols and technologies as it is about validating one's problem
>>>>>> solving
>>>>>> and analysis skills.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To get a better understanding of this, check out some of the Cisco 360
>>>>>> Video
>>>>>> on Demand Lesson Modules. In particular, check out the Link-Layer (7
>>>>>> hours
>>>>>> of Video), IGP (6 hours) or BGP Lesson Modules (7 hours). Not only do
>>>>>> these
>>>>>> modules cover the stated technology, they apply the consistent "issue
>>>>>> spotting and options analysis" problem solving approach. They are also
>>>>>> bundled with Spot the Issues quizzes and hands-on technology focused
>>>>>> labs.
>>>>>> As the VoD presenter talks, you can watch him configure and verify the
>>>>>> specific technologies at an actual router or switch prompt as if you
>>>>>> were
>>>>>> looking over his shoulder while he was typing. It is a very effective
>>>>>> presentation style.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The presenter in each of the Video-on-Demand sessions mentioned above
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> none other than Mr. Anthony Sequiera, now of InternetworkExperts.
>>>>>> Anthony
>>>>>> did a great job presenting this content. I really enjoyed working with
>>>>>> him
>>>>>> on this project. Thanks Anthony!!! You deserve an Academy Award for
>>>>>> your
>>>>>> performance! : )
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> HTH,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Bruce Caslow CCIE #3139
>>>>>> Cisco 360 Master Instructor
>>>>>> NetMasterClass, LLC
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: nobody_at_groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com] On Behalf
>>>>>> Of
>>>>>> sameer khan
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 11:03 AM
>>>>>> To: narbikk; marc.a.laporte_at_gmail.com
>>>>>> Cc: asequeira_at_internetworkexpert.com; groupstudy
>>>>>> Subject: RE: The Reason for failing?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> every one who is preparing for CCIE exam already know ( i am guessing)
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> fact that knowing the inner work or behavior of protocols are essential
>>>>>> key
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> passing, then why people not concentrate on that if that is the reason.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> as i have heard, your worst enemy will hide in the last place you will
>>>>>> ever
>>>>>> look, or in this case least expected topic :D
>>>>>>
>>>>>> and as with some of the stuff, there are no minor topics. :D
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks all for answering
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>> --c
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 07:45:30 -0700
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: The Reason for failing?
>>>>>>> From: narbikk_at_gmail.com
>>>>>>> To: marc.a.laporte_at_gmail.com
>>>>>>> CC: khanzadap_at_hotmail.com; asequeira_at_internetworkexpert.com;
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I agree with Scott 100 percent.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So you should make number 10, WAS I READY FOR THE TEST?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 7:30 AM, Marc La Porte
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> <marc.a.laporte_at_gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sameer,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I solely failed on underestimating the required knowledge and
>>>>>>>> know-how
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the minor topics (QoS, Security, IP Services, Multicast, etc). Other
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> that I was fine on the L2/L3 stuff, fine on time management (L2/L3
>>>>>>>> done
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> lunch), and fine on the stress (came in the day before, relaxed with a
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> nice
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> dinner, a non-Cisco book, a bath, an early night, and a good
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> breakfast).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I actually ended up not asking anything to the proctor, but that's
>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> why
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> failed...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>> Marc
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 16:18, sameer khan <khanzadap_at_hotmail.com>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> hi Anthony;
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That really helpful, just a suggestion that if possible IE also if
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> .pdf format of the articles, that will be great to download or
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> printing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In regards to my question, i am trying to figure out why people
>>>>>>>>> fail,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> concentrate from that perspective. As i am guessing is that mixing
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> technologies changes the expected behavior of the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> protocol/configuration
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> thus making the matter confusing.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If can one else please add there experiences of being unsuccessful,
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>> greatful.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> CC: ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
>>>>>>>>>> From: asequeira_at_internetworkexpert.com
>>>>>>>>>> To: khanzadap_at_hotmail.com
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: The Reason for failing?
>>>>>>>>>> Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 09:51:35 -0400
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Sameer!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Here are some observations I documented about that question in case
>>>>>>>>>> you have not seen these:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://blog.internetworkexpert.com/2008/10/01/common-reasons-for-lab-exam
>>>>>> -fa
>>>>>> i
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> lure/<
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://blog.internetworkexpert.com/2008/10/01/common-reasons-for-lab-exam
>>>>>> -fa
>>>>>> i
>>>>>> %0Alure/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Warmest Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Anthony J. Sequeira, CCIE #15626
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.INE.com <http://www.ine.com/> <http://www.ine.com/> <
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.ine.com/>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Test your Core Knowledge today!
>>>>>>>>>> Q: What is the primary source of RPF information used by PIM?
>>>>>>>>>> A: the unicast routing table
>>>>>>>>>> More Info:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc957916.aspx
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>
>> Share your photos with Windows Live Photos Free.
>>>>>>>>> http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/134665338/direct/01/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>>>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Narbik Kocharians
>>>>>>> CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
>>>>>>> www.MicronicsTraining.com <http://www.micronicstraining.com/> <
>>>>>>> http://www.micronicstraining.com/>
>>>>>>> Sr. Technical Instructor
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>>>> With Windows Live, you can organise, edit, and share your photos.
>>>>>> http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/134665338/direct/01/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Narbik Kocharians
>>>>> CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
>>>>> www.MicronicsTraining.com <http://www.micronicstraining.com/>
>>>>> Sr. Technical Instructor
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>
>>
>>
>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>
>>
>>
>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________________________________
>> Subscription information may be found at:
>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

Cheers,

Jared Scrivener CCIE3 #16983 (R&S, Security, SP), CISSP
Sr. Technical Instructor - IPexpert, Inc.
URL: http://www.IPexpert.com
Telephone: +1.810.326.1444
Fax: +1.810.454.0130
Mailto: jscrivener_at_ipexpert.com

Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
Received on Fri Jun 12 2009 - 18:24:26 ART