Re: New Developments with Cisco 360

I have to jump in here just on one comment: "worthy" is defined by passing
the lab that Cisco set. To imply that because someone was taken from having
perhaps only CCNA knowledge to a CCIE, like our products do, makes them
unworthy is offensive and degrades the CCIE. If the exam is too easy in that
we can teach anyone to pass, then I encourage the proctors to make it
harder. Our course materials don't discriminate - we'll take anyone to the
goal, not just the chosen few. That's my 2 cents.

On 6/11/09 10:16 PM, "Persio Pucci" <persio_at_gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
> I am one 360 alumni from Verizon and would like to say a couple of words
> here...
>
> I personally think the 360 program is very good and has proven that it will
> help you pass the lab if you are ready to do so. I'll give you the example
> of my 360 class mates. Out of the 6 people that attended the bootcamps and
> used all the 360 material, 4 (including myself) passed on their first try
> (mine was actually the second try, as I have failed the lab 7 years ago, on
> a totally different lab era, and for that reason I am considering this a
> first try). One of the classmates failed twice so far, and the last guy did
> not attempt the lab yet. All but one of us have 10 years or so of experience
> with Cisco and IP networking in general. The guy that flunked had some
> personal problems at the time and did not that full advantage of the program
> material and bootcamps, while the guy that did not attempt it yet is just
> not up to the challenge yet as he still lacks some experience and
> exposure...
>
> What I mean here is that the 360 program made the difference for the ones
> that were ready to the lab, while it will not work miracles for somebody
> that is just not ready for it.
>
> And before anybody start trowing stones at me, we did have access to other
> vendors and we decided to go with the 360 as it seemed to be more
> comprehensive and focused than the other.
>
> I know that there are a lot of other vendors out there, and there might be
> some good products indeed. There are even products that will take you by the
> hand and teach you everything from scratch, which in my opinion is something
> terrible as it is just helping somebody not worthy to get a CCIE (like lots
> of people we are always flaming around GS).
>
> Is the 360 the most expensive? Maybe. But if the company is willing to pay
> for it to have people certified, and if it is working for the company (that
> 1.25 pass rate speaks for itself) I don't see why not use it. Let's just
> remember what we are discussing here, if the 360 is good or not or if it is
> too expensive for the "road warrior" or if which one is better. Every father
> will always say their kid is prettier...
>
> On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 10:46 PM, Alexei Monastyrnyi
> <alexeim73_at_gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Hi pal.
>>
>> 360 is focused on passing rate is just what Cisco says itself. Of course
>> not only on passing rate but on that one amongst other things. My major
>> point of that post was in saying that many bigger companies leans towards
>> what is approved and supported by the vendor which gear they use most. Now
>> when 360 is no the market, they may love it.
>>
>> I am not truing to offend someone here by comparing their products or
>> services with A-class no not. Maybe it was a bad example of quality vs
>> price. I am just saying here that there will always be someone wiling to pay
>> more just to avoid to spend an extra time on research and understanding of
>> that similar quality might be bought for less.
>>
>> A.
>>
>> Group Study wrote:
>>
>>> A -
>>>
>>> See comments inline....interesting post -
>>> On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 9:06 PM, Alexei Monastyrnyi
>>> <alexeim73_at_gmail.com<mailto:
>>> alexeim73_at_gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Joe.
>>>
>>> I think you have spotted that right regarding those who would take
>>> all costs on their personal budget. I would say Cisco 360 is
>>> mostly focused on large business clients AND on increasing the
>>> passing rate.
>>>
>>>
>>> How do you back up that that "360 is focused on passing rate"....are you
>>> suggesting that you can now "buy the CCIE" certification if you take the 360
>>> training, or that other vendor products don't assist you in
>>> passing?.....Again - Cisco is "SELLING" something....don't you think they're
>>> going to (like all vendors do) position a few positive success stories for
>>> their perspective clients to see / read / hear?...How (if you know) do you
>>> suggest the 360 program is a better solution than the "End-to-End" programs
>>> available by other "non-360" vendors?....I would suggest that the overall
>>> success of their program be reviewed....as well as measurements made on the
>>> quality and quantity - compared to price.....*IF* a particular vendor had
>>> more overall success stories (maybe 3 or 4 x more), a much more complete and
>>> thorough product - and it was more cost-effective....would that constitute
>>> as "better"?.....
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If you have attended that CCIE RS 4.0 update webinar (should also
>>> be available on demand now), you might catch two ideas.
>>>
>>> - Verizon success story with Cisco 360 program. In short, they
>>> have been using Cisco 360 program internally for quite a while and
>>> have already certified about 15 candidates with average pass score
>>> within this small group being 1.2. The Verison manager responsible
>>> for this training said there is already more than 30 Verizon
>>> engineers queuing for this program
>>>
>>>
>>> - One of the CCIE program members said that for now we have around
>>> 20 000 CCIEs around the Globe, they would aim to have 30 000
>>> within next year (if I remember this sentence right). And the
>>> reason behind it would be a technological growth and business
>>> needs for those 30K CCIEs on the marker right now.
>>>
>>> Now you put two and two together by yourself. Do they target
>>> self-study candidates and such? IMHO they don't. As Bruce have
>>> mentioned Cisco 360 is much more structural and predictive. Now
>>> when it is unbundled, it becomes more attractive for enterprises
>>> to train CCIEs in-house so to say.
>>>
>>> I don't believe it will be popular amongst GS members. If I worked
>>> for Verizon for example and still pursued my CCIE I would queue
>>> for that program. When I were doing my CCIE studies my company
>>> supported me in buying used routers and books but buying bootcamps
>>> and other full-day like training were off the list.
>>>
>>> If I had a choice to study nights vs studying during working hours
>>> I would sure pick the second one. Wouldn't you?
>>>
>>> It's like Mercedes A-class. Those who can afford it may enjoy it.
>>> Those who cannot - let's not get bored or frustrated by that fact
>>> that they pass us on a highway and concentrate on where we drive
>>> to. :-)
>>>
>>>
>>> A - Surely you're not suggesting the "360" is a Mercedes....and other,
>>> proven, vendor training materials are sub-par - are you? ;-) Obviously -
>>> I'd have to completely disagree....You can't (and shouldn't) use the analogy
>>> comparing a particular CCIE training product to a "Mercedes A-class" just
>>> because it costs more....(there's a reason the Mercedes A-class costs more
>>> than the "average vehicle"...
>>>
>>> Just my .02 AUD.
>>> A.
>>>
>>> Joe Astorino wrote:
>>>
>>> As a working class guy going through things from the
>>> perspective of a student a few months ago, I never even
>>> considered the 360 program, because of price. In fact, I
>>> posted that on my blog at the time...why would anybody want to
>>> go for the 360 program unless they were rich, or their company
>>> funded it? At least that was my perspective. IPexpert, INE,
>>> and Narbik among others have proven material that works, that
>>> is taught by world class leading instructors that have great
>>> reputations, and is way cheaper. Am I missing something here?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Joe Astorino CCIE #24347 (R&S)
>>> Sr. Support Engineer b IPexpert, Inc.
>>> URL: http://www.IPexpert.com
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nobody_at_groupstudy.com <mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com>
>>> [mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com <mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com>]
>>> On Behalf Of Dark Fiber
>>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 8:26 PM
>>> To: Andrew Bruce Caslow
>>> Cc: ccielab_at_groupstudy.com <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
>>> Subject: Re: New Developments with Cisco 360
>>>
>>> I don't think anyone could honestly question the quality of
>>> the material. I think what alot of us question is the cost.
>>> Now I would have to think that is set by Cisco themselves.
>>> This is what hurts the program in the long run I believe.
>>> CIERS Basic Package (CIERSBASIC) is $4500.
>>> IPX: Blended Learning Solution $1500
>>> INE: End to End $2500
>>> Narbik: $2500 and free retakes, even after you pass your lab
>>> for refreshers!
>>>
>>> If I had to start over today with all my material the cost and
>>> value associated with that cost would knock the 360 program
>>> right off the list :(
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Andrew Bruce Caslow" <abcaslow_at_netmasterclass.net
>>> <mailto:abcaslow_at_netmasterclass.net>>
>>> To: ccielab_at_groupstudy.com <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
>>> Cc: "Andrew Bruce Caslow" <abcaslow_at_netmasterclass.net
>>> <mailto:abcaslow_at_netmasterclass.net>>
>>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 6:31:43 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada
>>> Eastern
>>> Subject: New Developments with Cisco 360
>>>
>>> Hi Everyone,
>>>
>>> There have been some recent discussions on the Cisco 360
>>> program on
>>> GroupStudy. I wanted to take a minute and briefly discuss some new
>>> developments with Cisco 360.
>>>
>>> [X-post: http://blog.netmasterclass.net/?p=36 ]
>>>
>>> CISCO 360 IS UNBUNDLED
>>>
>>> All of Cisco 360 products have become unbundled. This
>>> means
>>> you can
>>> purchase only the Cisco 360 component you need when you need
>>> them. With
>>> this said, one can begin purchasing individual components of
>>> Cisco 360 for
>>> just a few hundred dollars. As you go through the Cisco 360
>>> program, you can
>>> pay as you go if you'd like. And of course, you can use your
>>> Cisco Learning
>>> Credits to pay for Cisco 360 products and services.
>>>
>>> This unbundling provides lots of flexibility for students
>>> with
>>> limited
>>> funds. Not only does it provide purchasing flexibility, it
>>> allows for CCIE
>>> students to mix and match Cisco 360 purchases with other
>>> vendors CCIE
>>> learning products such as InternetworkExpert and Narbik's
>>> workbook. I think
>>> we all agree, no one has a monopoly on great ideas. The "open
>>> architecture"
>>> of Cisco 360 allows for students to purchase only the
>>> components they want
>>> from Cisco 360 at the time they want. Students then have the
>>> option to use
>>> whatever other CCIE learning resources they want.
>>> CISCO 360 HAS 25 CCIE INSTRUCTORS AND MENTORS
>>> Furthermore, these individual components can be bundled
>>> with
>>> training
>>> courses and on-line mentoring services to create a complete
>>> end-to-end CCIE
>>> preparation program. One very exciting aspect of the Cisco 360
>>> program is
>>> that there are now 25 Cisco 360 certified instructors and
>>> mentors spread all
>>> over the world. And I must say, each one of them is a
>>> world-class instructor
>>> and mentor dedicated to delivering the very best in CCIE
>>> training and
>>> coaching. It has been a real pleasure working with these 25
>>> instructors and
>>> mentors. Many of these new instructors were trained by Bob
>>> Sinclair, who
>>> has been a frequent contributor to GroupStudy over the years.
>>> It is my
>>> opinion that Bob is the very best CCIE instructor in the world
>>> and Bob
>>> speaks very highly of the many Cisco 360 instructors he has
>>> trained in the
>>> US, Europe, the Middle East and Asia. Bob will be going to
>>> Japan in a week
>>> to train seven more Cisco 360 instructors.
>>>
>>> With the unbundling of Cisco 360 products and the large
>>> supply
>>> of 25, soon
>>> to be over 30, Cisco 360 instructors/mentors, the price of
>>> quality CCIE
>>> training should be falling. While many grey market CCIE
>>> companies provide
>>> excellent products and services, none of them have 25-30 CCIE
>>> instructors/mentors. This will dramatically change the CCIE
>>> training
>>> landscape. Currently, there are only a handful of CCIE
>>> instructors and no
>>> structured CCIE mentoring services in the CCIE marketplace.
>>> With Cisco 360,
>>> the pool of instructors and mentors is dramatically increased
>>> and this will
>>> give anyone that is pursuing their CCIE many more training and
>>> mentoring
>>> options. Competition and choices among learning solutions is a
>>> very good
>>> thing for CCIE students!
>>> CISCO 360 GRADED ASSESSMENT LABS
>>>
>>> A suggested starting point in using Cisco 360 products is
>>> to
>>> purchase the
>>> Cisco 360 graded assessment labs individually or in bundles.
>>> These graded
>>> assessment labs provide an excellent measurement for one's
>>> level of
>>> readiness to attempt the actual CCIE lab. They also provide
>>> voluminous
>>> feedback to maximize the learning experience. These graded
>>> assessment labs
>>> are most certainly not "unproven technology". They apply the
>>> former CHECKiT
>>> lab technology of NetMasterClass. This technology has been
>>> deployed and
>>> developed over the last five years. To my knowledge, no other
>>> CCIE training
>>> company has the level of experience in developing graded
>>> assessment labs as
>>> Val Pavlichenko and his software team at NetMasterClass. This
>>> team now is
>>> working for Cisco to develop a full range of graded assessment
>>> labs. This of
>>> course includes all Cisco 360 graded assessment labs.
>>> Currently, there are
>>> 12 graded assessment labs available in the Routing and
>>> Switching Cisco 360
>>> program. Many people perform several of these graded
>>> assessments to
>>> establish a "trend of performance" to help indicate their
>>> level of readiness
>>> to attempt the actual CCIE lab. Many like to combine this with
>>> Cisco 360
>>> mentoring services to obtain coaching and guidance along the
>>> way. Mr. Bill
>>> Burns of RackTimeRentals is one of these Mentors! Great job
>>> Bill! : )
>>> To get a good understanding of the new a la carte
>>> purchasing
>>> options
>>> available with Cisco 360, go to the following NetMasterClass link:
>>>
>>>
>>> http://netmasterclass.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY
>>> <
>>> http://netmasterclass.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=NMC
>>> <
>>> http://netmasterclass.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=NMC
>>>>
>>> _Store&Category_Code=Cisco360>
>>> &Store_Code=NMC_Store&Category_Code=Cisco360
>>> If you have any additional questions or comments, please
>>> feel
>>> free to
>>> contact me directly.
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> All the best,
>>>
>>> -Bruce Caslow CCIE #3139
>>>
>>> Cisco 360 Master Instructor
>>>
>>> NetMasterClass, LLC
>>>
>>> www.netmasterclass.net <http://www.netmasterclass.net>
>>>
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>
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>

Cheers,

Jared Scrivener CCIE3 #16983 (R&S, Security, SP), CISSP
Sr. Technical Instructor - IPexpert, Inc.
URL: http://www.IPexpert.com
Telephone: +1.810.326.1444
Fax: +1.810.454.0130
Mailto: jscrivener_at_ipexpert.com

Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
Received on Thu Jun 11 2009 - 23:12:38 ART