RE: Cisco Announced change to R&S

It is funny how this list sometimes goes in circles in what it is talking
about. I have to agree with Scott here. And I think, Darby, it is a
misinterpretation as to what they are attempting to do with the change. It
was just a short time ago on this list that everyone was complaining about
how it is too easy for people to cheat on the exam. Making the test a large
portion of troubleshooting is a much better method to preventing cheating
then the OEQ.

You now have to understand how the technology is implemented and figure out
what they did to cause it to stop working. This is the same approach they
have taken in the Voice and Security tracks as well. You cannot memorize
test questions, sell them, and still allow people to pass because unless
they understand the overreaching objective they will not understand
everything that can cause a technology to stop working.

That is why in the security/voice material that we are putting out, soon to
change for R&S as well, we have the technology focused labs of one purely
configuration. Then we break everything in the final configuration from
that lab and have you focus on getting the technologies back working. This
is to teach people not to pass the exam but to help them to understand the
technology and knowhow to both verify and troubleshoot. If students look at
the solution to figure out the troubleshooting problems then it is a
complete waste of time but if they take the time to troubleshoot they will
learn a ton.

I believe this is the direction that Cisco wants the people coming into the
program to be able to do and it will provide for a period of time at least a
better protection from cheating. And CCIE's will be more prepared to go
into the field and actually support technologies for companies. But this is
just my take on it.

Regards,
 
Tyson Scott - CCIE #13513 R&S and Security
Technical Instructor - IPexpert, Inc.

Telephone: +1.810.326.1444
Cell: +1.248.504.7309
Fax: +1.810.454.0130
Mailto: tscott_at_ipexpert.com
 

-----Original Message-----
From: nobody_at_groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
Scott Morris
Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 9:25 AM
To: Darby Weaver
Cc: smorris_at_internetworkexpert.com; Nauman Habib; Cisco certification
Subject: Re: Cisco Announced change to R&S

Chicken - egg.... Egg - chicken.... Blah, blah, blah.

While it would be politically entertaining if the Cisco 360 program were
somehow "required" for the CCIE lab exam, it wouldn't be feasible. Are
you saying that nobody else knows about the tricks and traps?

Or are you saying that the Cisco 360 program will have the actual lab
exams and can train to them?

Either way, doesn't that just put us right back to the same problem of
people passing without actual knowledge? It would put more $$ in
Cisco's pocket, but I really don't think that's the goal here. Long
term that would be suicidal.

Everyone's reacting to the changes. Some people are less adept at
paying attention to NDA or internal information until the release date
than others. :)

But in the end, the question becomes who does it better. Will companies
become obsolete? I doubt it. If you base it off of what's available
today versus the lab in 6 months I'd agree they don't line up. But
neither does the Cisco 360. :) One isn't more or less obsolete than the
other.

*Scott Morris*, CCIE/x4/ (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service Provider) #4713,

JNCIE-M #153, JNCIS-ER, CISSP, et al.

JNCI-M, JNCI-ER

smorris_at_internetworkexpert.com

Internetwork Expert, Inc.

http://www.InternetworkExpert.com

Toll Free: 877-224-8987

Outside US: 775-826-4344

Knowledge is power.

Power corrupts.

Study hard and be Eeeeviiiil......

Darby Weaver wrote:
> FYI:
>
> Here's where this scoop started on April 23rd:
>
> http://www.sadikhov.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=166881&st=0
>
>
> The part that is being left out of this thread is the concept that in this
> change to the lab - the CCIE Grey Market Vendors are supposed to be
targeted
> for obsoleteness and doen so by the tricks/traps that are to be introduced
> by the Cisco 360 Program.
>
> Ultimately/Theoretically the Cisco 360 Program would somehow become
required
> in order for candidates to have a reasonable chance at passing the new
CCIE
> RS Lab.
>
>
> That is the other shoe.
>
> And remember:
>
> The OEQ, the Frame-Realy, and everything else stays...
>
> You just don't get as many points for them now (Reference my all or
nothing
> point spread above).
>
> Techically the 1-4 point or whatever will be spread about - but:
>
> Imagine that you have to configure all Frame for a whopping 1 point.
>
> Imagaine all vlans + trunking + etherchannel for a whopping 3 points.
>
> Imagine all OSPF "normal" tasks for say 1-2 points per grouping.
>
> That kind of "all or nothing"... same as today with a few more tasks per
> group and a few less points. Think Consolidation and "virtual points".
>
>
> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
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> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html

Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
Received on Tue May 05 2009 - 10:14:13 ART