Re: To All

Yes, exactly, and I'd like to clarify that I wasn't trying to knock
anyone who uses the "recon" approach. I guess I'm kind of doing that
with the CCDE practical since I have no idea how to tell if I'm ready.
 I did know enough to know that I wasn't ready back in February so I
didn't attempt it that time around.

On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 2:10 PM, Richard Pickard <rpickard_at_ipexpert.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Ronnie makes some excellent points. Sometimes people use the 1st & 2nd
> attempts just to get a look at the lab & decide what to study. I took
> that route with CCIE Security.
>
>
>
> Other people do a great deal of background work & then go. Much like Ronnie
> that was the approach I took for R/S lab. I did not watch television for 7
> months prior to my R/S lab, studied 8 or more hours a day & then passed on
> the 1st attempt. When I turned the television back on the Chicago Cubs were
> blowing a chance to go to the World Series !
>
>
>
> Richard L. Pickard CCIE R/S, Sec CCNP CCDP CCVP MCSE CCSE NCA
>
> Sr. Technical Instructor - IPexpert, Inc.
>
> Telephone: +1.810.326.1444
>
> Fax: +1.810.454.0130
>
> Mailto: rpickard_at_ipexpert.com
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 12:40 PM, Ronnie Angello <ronnie.angello_at_gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> "Now if you get a guy who passed the lab on the first attempt... He
>> should
>> be walking on water too at least where lab criteria are concerned."
>>
>> Why is that? I can't speak for everyone but in my case I had well
>> over 10 years of experience under my belt before attempting the lab.
>> I failed the written exam twice and then went on to pass it twice
>> before I even attempted the lab. I spent countless hours working
>> through practice labs. I took 3 NMC CheckIT labs and scored 80+ on
>> each of them. THEN I attempted the lab for the first time.
>>
>> Is it possible that some people are smart enough to wait until they
>> know that they're ready before attempting the lab for the 1st, 2nd,
>> 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc. time? In my case it came out of my pocket so I
>> made damn well sure that I was ready. Even with all of that
>> preparation and confidence I nearly failed. I finished with just
>> enough time to check everything and caught a big mistake. It takes a
>> bit of luck too IMHO. I passed 1st try but I don't know everything.
>> I make mistakes and I don't "walk on water."
>>
>> Now I'm sure that there are some 1st time passers that take the easy
>> road, and that pisses me off. I didn't see my infant son grow up for
>> the better part of the first 6 months of his life while I worked on
>> practice labs, read the doc cd, took mock labs, etc. I made
>> sacrifices because I wanted it that bad. I'm tired of reading your
>> little comments about how 1st time passers had to have cheated or
>> received "help." I received no more help from anyone than you
>> received in any of the bootcamps you attended and I 100% earned it.
>>
>> Ronnie
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 11:56 AM, Darby Weaver <ccie.weaver_at_gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > Actually Persio has a point.
>> >
>> > The goal of the certification programs has been met. People know the
>> > products and they know the vendors.
>> >
>> > Merely studying to pass a test is really a mute point. Especially when
>> > so
>> > many others don't even try to study.
>> >
>> > How many others? Well Sadikhov.com has over 150,000 registered members
>> > and
>> > anywhere from 1000 -over 9000+ guests visited the site every single 15
>> > minutes.
>> >
>> > That pretty is a testimory that the certifications are probably past
>> > their
>> > shelf life.
>> >
>> > Even the CCIE program with the OEQ has already been tainted.
>> >
>> > But what chance did it have really? How many people out there don't
>> > even
>> > consider "CHEATING" to be "CHEATING"...
>> >
>> > They really just want to make sure they pass the first time - whether
>> > they
>> > learn or not is of little consequence.
>> >
>> > Hmmm...
>> >
>> > Let me say that again:
>> >
>> > They only want a passing score, even if it means all they had to do was
>> > memorize their 123's and ABC's - meaning Q1 was A and Q2 was C and Q3
>> > was
>> > B.... etc.
>> >
>> > Hell - You have to understand that they had evolved beyond merely
>> > passing
>> > the test... (I mean no self-respecting Sadikhovian ever wanted to report
>> > less than a 1000/1000 score report)...
>> >
>> > Now they needed the sample resumes - to cheat from...
>> >
>> > And interview questions to prepare from...
>> >
>> > And...
>> >
>> > What do you think comes next?
>> >
>> > So... this all stops if people wake up and see what happened to the
>> > poor
>> > ill-protected and often dis-respected Certfication Programs.
>> >
>> >
>> > I'd recommend interviewers ask the job candidate for their score report
>> > as a
>> > part of the interview process and conduct the interview based on the
>> > score.
>> > If you get a guy who can amazingly score 1000/1000 then that person
>> > should
>> > be amazingly sharp.
>> >
>> > Hah!
>> >
>> > Now if you get a guy who passed the lab on the first attempt... He
>> > should
>> > be walking on water too at least where lab criteria are concerned.
>> >
>> > It is true I see non-certified people every day holding their own quite
>> > well.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 9:18 AM, Persio Pucci <persio_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Want something better? We should definitely let go of certifications
>> >> already... instead of studying to pass a test, go actually learn stuff
>> >> and
>> >> use it.
>> >> I know a lot of people that just don't care about certs, and they are
>> >> as
>> >> good as us and are as recognized as us, not for their badges but for
>> >> their
>> >> work.
>> >>
>> >> Just my 2c...
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 10:06 AM, Ahsan Mohiuddin <
>> >> ahsan.mohiuddin_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Darby, it seems to me a waste of time and energy.. the ship's going
>> >>> down;
>> >>> and we are all going down with it *sigh*. For all we know cisco
>> >>> high-ups
>> >>> might be enjoying this heated debate of ours, since we NEVER get their
>> >>> official word even when all hell breaks loose. i guess cisco
>> >>> management is
>> >>> too g*ddam 'distributed' to come up with any swift/useful/decisive
>> >>> action
>> >>> regarding their formerly "industry-leading, A-class" certification
>> >>> program.
>> >>> Sir John, hi there, can you hear us Sir.. please? we really need your
>> >>> help.
>> >>> Somebody please grab his attention
>> >>>
>> >>> Lets do Juniper or Foundry or Riverbed certs and hope that by the the
>> >>> time
>> >>> the braindumpers can catch up, we will be sitting pretty in the
>> >>> high-up
>> >>> management roles, and the 'mere technicalities' will no longer be an
>> >>> issue... anybody think that a good idea? or is that just plain bs
>> >>> coming
>> >>> out
>> >>> of my overstressed, understimulated brain?
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 5:56 PM, Darby Weaver <ccie.weaver_at_gmail.com>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> > Guys - IT IS NOT AN APRIL FOOL'S JOKE!
>> >>> >
>> >>> > NO IT IS NOT.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > It was there long before April and one of the guys from Sadikhov
>> >>> > pointed
>> >>> it
>> >>> > out to me after I started cleaning Sadikhov.com of every post that
>> >>> > hints
>> >>> of
>> >>> > mentioning P4S, TK, or the like. There are older posts but there are
>> >>> > not
>> >>> > any
>> >>> > newer posts and if there are they are deleted on sight and the
>> >>> > members
>> >>> > posting the questions are banned for 7 days - those posting anything
>> >>> that
>> >>> > breaks copyright get banned for 1 month to 12 months - effectively
>> >>> removing
>> >>> > their ability to post any longer at all.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Trust me this is no joke.
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 6:23 AM, Pavel Bykov <slidersv_at_gmail.com>
>> >>> > wrote:
>> >>> >
>> >>> > > It looks like fake from the name.
>> >>> > > His name is Gay... a bit self explanatory. And if you count in all
>> >>> > > the
>> >>> > > Berries, then the intent of the author seems obvious.
>> >>> > > Reported it non the less... this was really a downer.
>> >>> > >
>> >>> > >
>> >>> > > On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 11:56 AM, Nick <ccieaz_at_googlemail.com>
>> >>> > > wrote:
>> >>> > >
>> >>> > >> shocking, i cant believe it.
>> >>> > >>
>> >>> > >> On a side not, there is no Cisco employee called "Gay Berryman",
>> >>> > >> or
>> >>> even
>> >>> > >> with the second name "Berryman". So i think its a April fool or
>> >>> > >> some
>> >>> > kind
>> >>> > >> of fake.
>> >>> > >>
>> >>> > >> Nick
>> >>> > >>
>> >>> > >> 2009/4/2 Darby Weaver <ccie.weaver_at_gmail.com>
>> >>> > >>
>> >>> > >> > BTW - Here is a prime example of the mentality of the faithful
>> >>> Brain
>> >>> > >> > Dumper
>> >>> > >> > community that is thoroughly enraged at not having access to
>> >>> > >> > the
>> >>> > latest
>> >>> > >> > dumps, CBTS, and other copyrighted materials at his fingertips:
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> > [QUOTE (neo_adi @ Mar 21 2009, 05:35 PM)] [image:
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> > *]<http://www.sadikhov.com/forum/index.php?act=findpost&pid=823528
>> >>> >
>> >>> > >> > I'm sure that braindumps weren't the only things shared in the
>> >>> OFFERs
>> >>> > >> and
>> >>> > >> > request section..
>> >>> > >> > Some really good CBTs and ebooks were shared.. hope the admins
>> >>> > >> > do
>> >>> look
>> >>> > >> at
>> >>> > >> > it
>> >>> > >> > and see to it that some arrangement is made to get back those
>> >>> > >> > posts
>> >>> on
>> >>> > >> > those
>> >>> > >> > really wonderful CBT's and ebooks, study notes avaialable
>> >>> > >> > here...
>> >>> > >> > [End of Quote]
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> > [Quote]
>> >>> > >> > yes this is the main reason why Sadikov was my first stop when
>> >>> > >> > new
>> >>> > cbts
>> >>> > >> > from
>> >>> > >> > cbtnuggets or trainsignal I even was apart of a few group buys
>> >>> > >> > here
>> >>> > >> which
>> >>> > >> > built some cool online tech friendships
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> > For the guy who said maybe this will give us true techs a
>> >>> > >> > chance at
>> >>> > jobs
>> >>> > >> > you
>> >>> > >> > are a FAKE SIR!!! Any real tech knows right now the I.T field
>> >>> > >> > exp
>> >>> > >> anything
>> >>> > >> > with CISCO , sharepoint , exc hange and server 2008 puts you at
>> >>> > >> > the
>> >>> > top
>> >>> > >> of
>> >>> > >> > the list for jobs.
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> > Get this braindump mentality out of your heads now its bad
>> >>> > information.
>> >>> > >> The
>> >>> > >> > only way a braindump is bad is if you put no effort into
>> >>> > >> > studying
>> >>> try
>> >>> > to
>> >>> > >> > buy
>> >>> > >> > 1 and then memorize those answers
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> > The correct way to use a brain dump and how we do it at the
>> >>> pentagon
>> >>> > and
>> >>> > >> > GOV
>> >>> > >> > level
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> > 1) Pick a course
>> >>> > >> > 2) Get the official book and try to find a cbt which relates to
>> >>> > >> > the
>> >>> > >> subject
>> >>> > >> > 3) Cbts usually in the begin give you ideas on what lab to
>> >>> > >> > build ,
>> >>> as
>> >>> > >> you
>> >>> > >> > are reading try to simulate and do the same things the author
>> >>> > >> > or
>> >>> cbt
>> >>> > >> > teacher
>> >>> > >> > is doing mostly getting used to areas in a program or command
>> >>> > >> > line
>> >>> > >> > 4) Finish the book and cbt << You have now earned your right to
>> >>> seek
>> >>> > >> > answers
>> >>> > >> > from any source possible now
>> >>> > >> > 5) If having issues with wondering how they are going to attack
>> >>> > >> > you
>> >>> on
>> >>> > a
>> >>> > >> > test get a practice test or pass4sure
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> > For those who go straight to step 5 without doing the other get
>> >>> ready
>> >>> > to
>> >>> > >> > have a employer laugh you at of his office during the interview
>> >>> > because
>> >>> > >> you
>> >>> > >> > will show right then and there you have no idea about the
>> >>> > >> > subject .
>> >>> > Most
>> >>> > >> > employers will only want to know do you know anything about
>> >>> > >> > this
>> >>> > >> question
>> >>> > >> > topic and whats the main area or tool you will use to
>> >>> > >> > troubleshoot
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> > [End of Quote]
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> > You see you'd have thought the Admin over at Sadikhov and guys
>> >>> > >> > like
>> >>> me
>> >>> > >> > killed their favorite dog or something.
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> > No people, in case you are a little slow, P4S and others are
>> >>> > >> > NOT
>> >>> > >> legitimate
>> >>> > >> > study aids.
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> > Go to certguard.com and check their lists. They'll help you
>> >>> > >> > see
>> >>> the
>> >>> > >> > light.
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> > >> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > _______________________________________________________________________
>> >>> > >> > Subscription information may be found at:
>> >>> > >> > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>> >>> > >>
>> >>> > >>
>> >>> > >> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>> >>> > >>
>> >>> > >>
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________________________________
>> >>> > >> Subscription information may be found at:
>> >>> > >> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>> >>> > >>
>> >>> > >>
>> >>> > >>
>> >>> > >>
>> >>> > >>
>> >>> > >>
>> >>> > >>
>> >>> > >>
>> >>> > >
>> >>> > >
>> >>> > > --
>> >>> > > Pavel Bykov
>> >>> > > ----------------
>> >>> > > Don't forget to help stopping the braindumps, use of which reduces
>> >>> value
>> >>> > of
>> >>> > > your certifications. Sign the petition at
>> >>> http://www.stopbraindumps.com/
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> > _______________________________________________________________________
>> >>> > Subscription information may be found at:
>> >>> > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________________________________
>> >>> Subscription information may be found at:
>> >>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>> >
>> >
>> > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________________________________
>> > Subscription information may be found at:
>> > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Ronald Angello
>> CCIE 17846
>> CCDP, CCIP, CCNP
>>
>>
>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________________________________
>> Subscription information may be found at:
>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

-- 
Ronald Angello
CCIE 17846
CCDP, CCIP, CCNP
Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net