From: Felix Nkansah (felixnkansah@gmail.com)
Date: Mon Jan 19 2009 - 13:27:36 ARST
Darby,
Don't forget that some of the best computer programmers are
non-English speaking with poor English-language skills, despite the fact
that almost all programming languages (including even assembly)
use English-like syntax.
Japan currently has some of the best but unpopular Cisco networking
engineers around. Yet these guys are hardly fluent in the English language.
Don't you think there's a difference between technical English and social
English? :-)
Felix
On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 3:16 PM, Darby Weaver <ccie.weaver@gmail.com> wrote:
> You see that always puzzled me how people who can't read English actually
> pass the lab and do so with apparent ease.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 8:45 AM, Pavel Bykov <slidersv@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Well, then maybe you have been to the lab with a cheater then. That is
> also
> > a possibility, no?
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 11:24 AM, Joseph Brunner <
> joe@affirmedsystems.com>wrote:
> >
> >> Yup great... I'm just saying I have been to the lab with persons who
> could
> >> not answer those questions in English... period.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> >> Pavel Bykov
> >> Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 4:56 AM
> >> To: Joseph Brunner
> >> Cc: Darby Weaver; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> >> Subject: Re: Darby's CCIE Interview Guestimates:
> >>
> >> Joseph,
> >> - IOS is in English
> >> - Technologes are described in english - Most acronyms are made up in
> >> English, and then "translated", often very poorly into other languages
> >> - Most technologies used today were created by English speakers
> >> - De facto world language is English
> >> - It's multicultural with English interconnecting them
> >>
> >> - Proof? GS is in English
> >>
> >>
> >> As a non-native English speaker, I can say that if you understand
> >> technologies, you will be able to answer questions. We are not being
> >> compared to Tolstoy. It doesn't matter if you can't say etherchannel.
> >> You'll be able to understand "Etherchannel".
> >>
> >> With almost a billion english speakers, your analogy to gaalic and other
> >> languages used by 10 people is irrelevant.
> >>
> >> With English, The playing level was more or less equal. Everyone had to
> >> learn it and everyone has got pretty much same handicap. That's why I
> >> didn't
> >> like the news, that they ask questions in Chinese in China.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 10:34 AM, Joseph Brunner
> >> <joe@affirmedsystems.com>wrote:
> >>
> >> > This is absolutely ridiculous.... I took the lab multiple times with
> >> > engineers who could barely speak English...
> >> >
> >> > How in the world can Cisco do this??? Does Howard speak 118 languages
> >> (does
> >> > he have the time to learn them all?) Or does this just mean non-fluent
> >> > English speakers FAIL the lab now... This would not be fair as I work
> >> with
> >> > several people from other countries I still CANT FULLY speak to
> >> regarding
> >> > the technologies or they would not understand me... ENGLISH is that
> >> hard...
> >> >
> >> > I have given a person an interview for a job that was a multi-ccie. He
> >> > could
> >> > not say "etherchannel". Interestingly enough, a Cisco employee from
> >> Belgium
> >> > after the lab one time also didn't speak English very well.
> >> >
> >> > This is a really bad idea considering the multi-cultural atmosphere in
> >> the
> >> > world today... I think a better way to root out fakers would be an
> >> intense
> >> > troubleshooting part of the lab, preferably at the end where you fix
> 10
> >> > issues plaguing a simulated real network (that you can reach after you
> >> > "close" your main rack you work on all day). Of course once you close
> >> your
> >> > rack you can't go back and work on it some more, so it would
> definitely
> >> be
> >> > a
> >> > 3 hour separate part at the end...
> >> >
> >> > Maybe some JNCIE's can shed some light on how they do the
> >> troubleshooting
> >> > part- (or is it a 2-day lab??) I remember reading the JNCIE pages and
> >> them
> >> > discussing "troubleshooting a live network"
> >> >
> >> > -Joe
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
> Of
> >> > Darby Weaver
> >> > Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 9:39 PM
> >> > To: ccielab@groupstudy.com
> >> > Subject: Darby's CCIE Interview Guestimates:
> >> >
> >> > One online-buddy of mine from the UK said this:
> >> >
> >> > "I personally think it's hilarious, this is one of the premier
> >> > certifications in the I.T industry and I find it amazing that
> >> prospective
> >> > candidates are being spooked at the thought of answering a few
> questions
> >> > about a product/platform that they should be intimate with at this
> >> stage."
> >> >
> >> > "And I could not agree with him more... and trust me we've had our
> >> > differences."
> >> >
> >> > Are these questions as we used to (multi-choices) or direct questions
> >> and
> >> > you have to answer by writing & explaining ?
> >> >
> >> > My reply:
> >> >
> >> > By "open-ended" They will be questions we have to write and explain
> the
> >> > details of the technology or even explain how given a certain
> scenario.
> >> > No
> >> > multiple-choice on this one.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Open-ended question might be something like:
> >> >
> >> > 1. Explain how Arp works?
> >> >
> >> > 2. Explain how spanning-tree works given this scenario based on this
> >> > topology after this physical topology change. (I'd advise referring to
> >> the
> >> > Cisco Press CCIE Exam Guide 3rd Edition for this)
> >> >
> >> > 3. Explain the Diffusing Updae Algorithm.
> >> >
> >> > 4. Explain Unequal-Cost Load Balancing.
> >> >
> >> > 5. Explain Poison Reverse.
> >> >
> >> > 6. Explain how Split-horizon works.
> >> >
> >> > 7. Explain inverse-arp.
> >> >
> >> > 8. Explain how a OSPF determines whether an area is transit.
> >> >
> >> > 9. Explain how peer groups work in BGP.
> >> >
> >> > 10. Explain how FRTS is determined based on a given set of criteria.
> >> >
> >> > 12. Explain how LLQ works and compare it to Priority Queueing and
> >> > Class-Based Weighted Fair Queueing.
> >> >
> >> > 13. Explain how BGP Synchronization works.
> >> >
> >> > 14. Explain how redistribution works.
> >> >
> >> > 15. Explain how ip forward-protocol works.
> >> >
> >> > 16. Explain how NTP peers work.
> >> >
> >> > 17. Explain the states that BGP uses to determine the best path?
> >> >
> >> > 18. Explain the states that HSRP uses.
> >> >
> >> > 19. How does a router determine which route is better? And if we give
> >> you
> >> > this scenario? Explain, please.
> >> >
> >> > 20. How does a route-map work?
> >> >
> >> > 21. How does a distribute-list work?
> >> >
> >> > 22. How does a summary-address work? What will the routing table look
> >> like
> >> > 2
> >> > routers away?
> >> >
> >> > 23. Give some examples of how we might use a loopback address.
> >> >
> >> > 24. How does NAT work and if we give you this scenario, explain in
> >> detail
> >> > please.
> >> >
> >> > 25. Compare and VRRP and HSRP and explain why one might be chosen over
> >> the
> >> > other under a given set of circumstances.
> >> >
> >> > 26. Which is the preferred route, iBGP or eBGP, why?
> >> >
> >> > 27. Explain how Next-hop-Self works?
> >> >
> >> > 28. Explain why we might use a loopback address instead of a physical
> >> > interface in BGP?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > This was a few of my questions I thought if it were me I might think
> up
> >> on
> >> > the fly. However, Cisco has had a seasoned team of very talented
> >> > engineers,. program directors, and test designers spend months if not
> >> years
> >> > working on this and I'm sure all of them outrank my knowledge by
> >> > comparison. So be prepared.
> >> >
> >> > In general, I'd expect that none of the questions (5 if the rumors are
> >> > correct) would stump a CCIE Candidate who passed the CCIE Written and
> >> who
> >> > also spent at least 500 hours preparing for the CCIE Lab.
> >> >
> >> > Now from my experience, and I've got a lot of experience with written
> >> exams
> >> > from Cisco, Cisco typically expects us as CCIE Candidates to be able
> to
> >> > successfully read, analyze, and select the correct answer at least
> >> 65-80%
> >> > of
> >> > the time in most Multiple-Choice exams. Fair enough. Now we are going
> >> to
> >> > get about 10-12 or even 15 minutes to complete about 5 questions which
> >> may
> >> > constitute up to 5% of of our score on the CCIE Lab or 5 points.
> >> >
> >> > So either the questions are going to be about 3x more difficult that a
> >> > typical CCIE Written exam or they are going to give us approximately 3
> >> > minutes to read the "open-ended question" and close the gap on each of
> >> > those
> >> > questions and answer at least 4 of 5 of them successfully. Or perhaps
> >> we
> >> > will have succeeded in failing our lab exam despite the fact we know
> how
> >> to
> >> > type our commands correctly either through knowledge, experience,
> >> > brute-force, or sheer memorization, etc. nonetheless we will have
> >> probably
> >> > not passed that lab exam this time around if any of the rumors
> >> circulating
> >> > regarding this are true.
> >> >
> >> > If they are false, then these 5 points might be weighted about the
> same
> >> as
> >> > any other section in the exam, however since no one has been to the
> exam
> >> as
> >> > of yet to see these questions, then no one can really say for sure.
> >> >
> >> > There was talk of a verbal review. Somewhere along the way I read on
> >> > Cisco's QA this got cleared up and now it seems it will be a
> >> computer-based
> >> > writing drill as opposed to a face to face look a proctor or multiple
> >> > proctors in the eye kind of thing. I recall Howard saying that one of
> >> the
> >> > reasons that the face to face review was dropped from the lab in the
> >> first
> >> > place was because so many candidates were very passionate and very
> >> > unpredictable emotionally when receiving bad news or something to that
> >> > effect. Hey, in the USA we have shooting sprees for less. Just
> joking
> >> > here... no one needs to take up one's bad or lack of study habits with
> >> any
> >> > proctor. Nope, they don't fool with your configs at lunchtime either.
> >> >
> >> > Disclaimer: This is just a humble opinion on what to expect and as you
> >> can
> >> > see it is non-vendor biased. From my experience, all vendors usually
> >> cover
> >> > most of this if not all of it somewhere between Network+/CCNA to the
> >> CCIE
> >> > level of instruction.
> >> >
> >> > Overall, I'd say the best reference for these type of questions might
> >> start
> >> > with:
> >> >
> >> > Internetworking Technologies by Cisco Press
> >> >
> >> > It might sound simple but I think a lot of people overlook this
> >> reference.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > <
> >> >
> >>
> http://www.sadikhov.com/forum/index.php?act=report&t=49973&p=788915&st=200
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >> >
> >> >
> _______________________________________________________________________
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> >> >
> >> >
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> >> >
> >> >
> _______________________________________________________________________
> >> > Subscription information may be found at:
> >> > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Pavel Bykov
> >> ----------------
> >> Don't forget to help stopping the braindumps, use of which reduces value
> >> of
> >> your certifications. Sign the petition at
> http://www.stopbraindumps.com/
> >>
> >>
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> >>
> >> _______________________________________________________________________
> >> Subscription information may be found at:
> >> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Pavel Bykov
> > ----------------
> > Don't forget to help stopping the braindumps, use of which reduces value
> of
> > your certifications. Sign the petition at http://www.stopbraindumps.com/
>
>
> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
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