From: ospfv2 (ospfv2@gmail.com)
Date: Mon Jan 19 2009 - 13:28:55 ARST
don't get me wrong, non englih speaking candidate might excell in
technology, but they are usually no good in verbal communication.
western education are more likely two direction, students are used to
express they feeling & opinion since they early age.
this isn't happen in non-western education,
westerner students listen and speak in class, talk a lot
non westerner only listen, rarely speak, they dont argue
so its not uncommon to see westerner in TV answering one given
question & expressing their opinion for 5-10 minutes while the
non-westerner can only say Yes,No, I dunno, or just smile when facing
the same question. you think i'm bluffing ? ask your non-westerner
colleague , what they think about Obama, you might get no more than 5
words, and then ask a westerner.
in states, even Gas-Station guy could talk for 10 minutes for a
question about Obama.
so i'm afraid when the proctor ask first question to non westerner
candidate, how arp works ? the proctor might get no more then ten
words. or even worst the candidate try so hard to manage how to
explain it in english.
the proctor can not wait for the answer, so he/she continues with the next Qs.
not everyone good at verbal communication
a sales guy could be better in explaining cisco technology
thats fact, they are better with verbal
most (non westerner) ccie candidate are not, thats why they prefer to
talk to the machine using IOS rather to Human with English, they
choose to spent most of the time with machines, they prefer to answer
lab question rather verbal question
thats why the become a net engineer rather than a Lawyer
yes, english is not my native language
On 1/19/09, Pavel Bykov <slidersv@gmail.com> wrote:
> Well, then maybe you have been to the lab with a cheater then. That is also
> a possibility, no?
>
> On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 11:24 AM, Joseph Brunner
> <joe@affirmedsystems.com>wrote:
>
>> Yup great... I'm just saying I have been to the lab with persons who could
>> not answer those questions in English... period.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
>> Pavel Bykov
>> Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 4:56 AM
>> To: Joseph Brunner
>> Cc: Darby Weaver; ccielab@groupstudy.com
>> Subject: Re: Darby's CCIE Interview Guestimates:
>>
>> Joseph,
>> - IOS is in English
>> - Technologes are described in english - Most acronyms are made up in
>> English, and then "translated", often very poorly into other languages
>> - Most technologies used today were created by English speakers
>> - De facto world language is English
>> - It's multicultural with English interconnecting them
>>
>> - Proof? GS is in English
>>
>>
>> As a non-native English speaker, I can say that if you understand
>> technologies, you will be able to answer questions. We are not being
>> compared to Tolstoy. It doesn't matter if you can't say etherchannel.
>> You'll be able to understand "Etherchannel".
>>
>> With almost a billion english speakers, your analogy to gaalic and other
>> languages used by 10 people is irrelevant.
>>
>> With English, The playing level was more or less equal. Everyone had to
>> learn it and everyone has got pretty much same handicap. That's why I
>> didn't
>> like the news, that they ask questions in Chinese in China.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 10:34 AM, Joseph Brunner
>> <joe@affirmedsystems.com>wrote:
>>
>> > This is absolutely ridiculous.... I took the lab multiple times with
>> > engineers who could barely speak English...
>> >
>> > How in the world can Cisco do this??? Does Howard speak 118 languages
>> (does
>> > he have the time to learn them all?) Or does this just mean non-fluent
>> > English speakers FAIL the lab now... This would not be fair as I work
>> with
>> > several people from other countries I still CANT FULLY speak to
>> > regarding
>> > the technologies or they would not understand me... ENGLISH is that
>> hard...
>> >
>> > I have given a person an interview for a job that was a multi-ccie. He
>> > could
>> > not say "etherchannel". Interestingly enough, a Cisco employee from
>> Belgium
>> > after the lab one time also didn't speak English very well.
>> >
>> > This is a really bad idea considering the multi-cultural atmosphere in
>> the
>> > world today... I think a better way to root out fakers would be an
>> intense
>> > troubleshooting part of the lab, preferably at the end where you fix 10
>> > issues plaguing a simulated real network (that you can reach after you
>> > "close" your main rack you work on all day). Of course once you close
>> your
>> > rack you can't go back and work on it some more, so it would definitely
>> be
>> > a
>> > 3 hour separate part at the end...
>> >
>> > Maybe some JNCIE's can shed some light on how they do the
>> > troubleshooting
>> > part- (or is it a 2-day lab??) I remember reading the JNCIE pages and
>> them
>> > discussing "troubleshooting a live network"
>> >
>> > -Joe
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
>> > Darby Weaver
>> > Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 9:39 PM
>> > To: ccielab@groupstudy.com
>> > Subject: Darby's CCIE Interview Guestimates:
>> >
>> > One online-buddy of mine from the UK said this:
>> >
>> > "I personally think it's hilarious, this is one of the premier
>> > certifications in the I.T industry and I find it amazing that
>> > prospective
>> > candidates are being spooked at the thought of answering a few questions
>> > about a product/platform that they should be intimate with at this
>> stage."
>> >
>> > "And I could not agree with him more... and trust me we've had our
>> > differences."
>> >
>> > Are these questions as we used to (multi-choices) or direct questions
>> > and
>> > you have to answer by writing & explaining ?
>> >
>> > My reply:
>> >
>> > By "open-ended" They will be questions we have to write and explain the
>> > details of the technology or even explain how given a certain scenario.
>> > No
>> > multiple-choice on this one.
>> >
>> >
>> > Open-ended question might be something like:
>> >
>> > 1. Explain how Arp works?
>> >
>> > 2. Explain how spanning-tree works given this scenario based on this
>> > topology after this physical topology change. (I'd advise referring to
>> the
>> > Cisco Press CCIE Exam Guide 3rd Edition for this)
>> >
>> > 3. Explain the Diffusing Updae Algorithm.
>> >
>> > 4. Explain Unequal-Cost Load Balancing.
>> >
>> > 5. Explain Poison Reverse.
>> >
>> > 6. Explain how Split-horizon works.
>> >
>> > 7. Explain inverse-arp.
>> >
>> > 8. Explain how a OSPF determines whether an area is transit.
>> >
>> > 9. Explain how peer groups work in BGP.
>> >
>> > 10. Explain how FRTS is determined based on a given set of criteria.
>> >
>> > 12. Explain how LLQ works and compare it to Priority Queueing and
>> > Class-Based Weighted Fair Queueing.
>> >
>> > 13. Explain how BGP Synchronization works.
>> >
>> > 14. Explain how redistribution works.
>> >
>> > 15. Explain how ip forward-protocol works.
>> >
>> > 16. Explain how NTP peers work.
>> >
>> > 17. Explain the states that BGP uses to determine the best path?
>> >
>> > 18. Explain the states that HSRP uses.
>> >
>> > 19. How does a router determine which route is better? And if we give
>> you
>> > this scenario? Explain, please.
>> >
>> > 20. How does a route-map work?
>> >
>> > 21. How does a distribute-list work?
>> >
>> > 22. How does a summary-address work? What will the routing table look
>> like
>> > 2
>> > routers away?
>> >
>> > 23. Give some examples of how we might use a loopback address.
>> >
>> > 24. How does NAT work and if we give you this scenario, explain in
>> > detail
>> > please.
>> >
>> > 25. Compare and VRRP and HSRP and explain why one might be chosen over
>> the
>> > other under a given set of circumstances.
>> >
>> > 26. Which is the preferred route, iBGP or eBGP, why?
>> >
>> > 27. Explain how Next-hop-Self works?
>> >
>> > 28. Explain why we might use a loopback address instead of a physical
>> > interface in BGP?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > This was a few of my questions I thought if it were me I might think up
>> on
>> > the fly. However, Cisco has had a seasoned team of very talented
>> > engineers,. program directors, and test designers spend months if not
>> years
>> > working on this and I'm sure all of them outrank my knowledge by
>> > comparison. So be prepared.
>> >
>> > In general, I'd expect that none of the questions (5 if the rumors are
>> > correct) would stump a CCIE Candidate who passed the CCIE Written and
>> > who
>> > also spent at least 500 hours preparing for the CCIE Lab.
>> >
>> > Now from my experience, and I've got a lot of experience with written
>> exams
>> > from Cisco, Cisco typically expects us as CCIE Candidates to be able to
>> > successfully read, analyze, and select the correct answer at least
>> > 65-80%
>> > of
>> > the time in most Multiple-Choice exams. Fair enough. Now we are going
>> > to
>> > get about 10-12 or even 15 minutes to complete about 5 questions which
>> may
>> > constitute up to 5% of of our score on the CCIE Lab or 5 points.
>> >
>> > So either the questions are going to be about 3x more difficult that a
>> > typical CCIE Written exam or they are going to give us approximately 3
>> > minutes to read the "open-ended question" and close the gap on each of
>> > those
>> > questions and answer at least 4 of 5 of them successfully. Or perhaps
>> > we
>> > will have succeeded in failing our lab exam despite the fact we know how
>> to
>> > type our commands correctly either through knowledge, experience,
>> > brute-force, or sheer memorization, etc. nonetheless we will have
>> probably
>> > not passed that lab exam this time around if any of the rumors
>> circulating
>> > regarding this are true.
>> >
>> > If they are false, then these 5 points might be weighted about the same
>> as
>> > any other section in the exam, however since no one has been to the exam
>> as
>> > of yet to see these questions, then no one can really say for sure.
>> >
>> > There was talk of a verbal review. Somewhere along the way I read on
>> > Cisco's QA this got cleared up and now it seems it will be a
>> computer-based
>> > writing drill as opposed to a face to face look a proctor or multiple
>> > proctors in the eye kind of thing. I recall Howard saying that one of
>> the
>> > reasons that the face to face review was dropped from the lab in the
>> first
>> > place was because so many candidates were very passionate and very
>> > unpredictable emotionally when receiving bad news or something to that
>> > effect. Hey, in the USA we have shooting sprees for less. Just joking
>> > here... no one needs to take up one's bad or lack of study habits with
>> any
>> > proctor. Nope, they don't fool with your configs at lunchtime either.
>> >
>> > Disclaimer: This is just a humble opinion on what to expect and as you
>> can
>> > see it is non-vendor biased. From my experience, all vendors usually
>> cover
>> > most of this if not all of it somewhere between Network+/CCNA to the
>> > CCIE
>> > level of instruction.
>> >
>> > Overall, I'd say the best reference for these type of questions might
>> start
>> > with:
>> >
>> > Internetworking Technologies by Cisco Press
>> >
>> > It might sound simple but I think a lot of people overlook this
>> reference.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > <
>> >
>> http://www.sadikhov.com/forum/index.php?act=report&t=49973&p=788915&st=200
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________________________________
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>> >
>> >
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>> >
>> > _______________________________________________________________________
>> > Subscription information may be found at:
>> > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> Pavel Bykov
>> ----------------
>> Don't forget to help stopping the braindumps, use of which reduces value
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>>
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>>
>> _______________________________________________________________________
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Pavel Bykov
> ----------------
> Don't forget to help stopping the braindumps, use of which reduces value of
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>
>
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> _______________________________________________________________________
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