From: Tony Varriale (tvarriale@flamboyaninc.com)
Date: Thu Jan 15 2009 - 13:06:40 ARST
They did have the options available. Braindumps were around..excessively.
1. As a silly example, people used groupstudy and went and passed their
lab. Maybe you weren't on this list in 1999. Search the archives. That
puts your first 5000 CCIE theory out the door. Cheating was popular then as
it is now.
2. Of course not. But, what you are speaking of was OLD school when
they could call TAC. That's when they had to configure their own term
server. That wasn't in the first 5000. That was the first 1000 or so.
3. I'd like to think I'm pretty well aware of the history of the lab.
Again, back in those days, you could call TAC.
I didn't ask you to be my friend. You are making specific statements that
question the program as a whole (which I'm not disagreeing or agreeing). I
would expect someone that makes those types of statements on a public list
you would be able to back them up publicly. Nothing more nothing less.
The NDA violation is a separate discussion.
I'm asking how you derived your numbers. I mean.you say 15k of the
20k.there's barely 15k active CCIEs.
The missed CCIE seat revenue is moot. People who continue to argue it do
not understand the program, money and/or shareholder value.
tv
From: Darby Weaver [mailto:ccie.weaver@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 12:33 AM
To: tvarriale@flamboyaninc.com
Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: Re: Changes to CCIE Lab and Written Exam Question Format and
Scoring
The first CCIE's didn't really have the globally available options what are
currently epidemic today.
1. There just were not that many people overall to pick from and to find
"study-buddies". Well... I do have some emails from one company from back
in the day that discounts that theory to some degree.
2. The test conditions were not what they are today. People were previously
allowed to study in pairs and even bring their own hand-written notes or
whatever else in with them up until some point this was no longer the case.
3. There was a physical portion to the lab exam. People had to be able to
rack their own gear - Hard to fake it - You either can or you cannot.
Personally I'd like to see this back in the lab and given the current state
of affairs I think it is mandatory unless Cisco really plans on getting out
of the hardware industry. Some people cannot connect virtual interfaces and
yet they are studying for and will eventually pass the CCIE Lab.
Tony - Sorry my friend you do not know me well enough to ask for my sources.
But if it is any consolation, they are available on the Internet in one form
or another or were at some point.
And I've always made a point to never ever violate my little NDA agreement.
However, I notice a lot of people who don't share the sentiment. Too many.
I am torn since I'd like to at lest finish my own CCIE even if the program
does get overhauled.
But if do need a reference - Someone actually had the gaul to publish a book
available on LuLu and Amazon with many reference points to start from.
Do you think the book would sell?
15,000 x 1400 = $21,000,000.00 and that's just 1 repeat on average. Yes,
Cisco probably lost a few gold bars in this deal as a direct result of
things.
Cisco has lost some revenue opportunities and who knows how many empty seats
over the years. To Cisco this probably looks like pennies in the bottom of
the toilet and not worth the effort.
However it could work in the opposite fashion if Cisco put a different spin
on it. Kind of like ensuring that all CCIE's are up to the new Cisco 360
Program" or something like that.
On 1/15/09, Tony Varriale <tvarriale@flamboyaninc.com> wrote:
Where are you getting your stats from? Feel free to post your source.
As for the profit center, instead of taking the word of a proctor, why not
research the dollars yourself and make your own assumption of the big
picture?
He's a proctor just like the others and typically has no idea regarding the
direct financial impact it has. Let's face it, it's not a typical business
unit within Cisco and all of the business rules do not apply. It does not
have a supply chain. It does not have manufacturers. It is not reported
during earnings calls. So, let's get over it.
If he debated the indirect financial impact, now that would be worth
something as that is where the value is. They could run it in the red to
the max, and it would still be valuable due to the indirect impact.
As for the first 5000 CCIEs...I noticed you didn't mention cheating there.
Why not?
tv
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
Darby Weaver
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 11:42 PM
To: Ahsan Mohiuddin
Cc: Roger RPF; robclav@gmail.com; ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: Re: Changes to CCIE Lab and Written Exam Question Format and
Scoring
It's coming...
Over 15,000 of 20,000 CCIE's have potentially taken the shortcut in one form
or another or had the opportunity to do so. That's about 3/4 of the current
crop. Taken with the fact that a certain number of the first 4000-5000 are
either the best of the best of obsolete entirely.... that's quite a large
problem.
If each was had taken the lab with no "help" then Cisco... might have earned
at least 1-2 more attempts per CCIE on average.
This cuts into the program's profit margins and that is a little number but
a substantial number.
Remember Howard did say the lab has become something of a profit center
now. Not its intention but it just is.
I just told a guy privately about asking a thinly veiled suspicious
question... and someone questioned me on it...
You see if you read groupstudy and just start de-certifying people who took
a chance to ask or answer violations the number of CCIE's would go down as a
direct result.w
People are always trying to slip through the crack and even water takes the
path of least resistence. Can't expect people to do differently.
The question is this:
Does Cisco want to make CCIE's who hold a paper and that paper holds
"anything" or does Cisco want to make Quality Network Engineers who can
operate effectively and efficiently in the field.
Here's a quote from a CCIE from about 7 years ago taken today:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------
Been a long time since I've been on the professional mailing list.
Anyway, I'm currently trying to recertify my CCIE R&S, and having a
monstrously hard time passing the R&S written, failed it twice now with the
same exact score, despite hitting the book (Cisco Press CCIE R&S Exam cert
guide 3rd edition) really hard for the second time. Not sure what the issue
is, both times had to hurry towards the end, needing 5 more minutes
probably. Is there something else you guys are using to study from? I've
used the CD with it, which has a Boson exam. Only issue is I see some
errors on the boson exam, so I lose confidence on it. Both times I was 5%
away from passing, so I'm close. I'm just shocked at the same score this
second time. Getting nervous about the expiration date coming up. Any
suggestions would be gratefully appreciated.
On 1/15/09, Ahsan Mohiuddin <ahsan.mohiuddin@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I just hope they aren't going to ask all current CCIEs to re-sit the lab
> !!!
>
> On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 3:36 AM, Darby Weaver
<ccie.weaver@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Did anyone else here that Cisco is planning to suspend the CCIE Lab
>> Testting
>> for all tracks for 90-Days to revamp the program?
>>
>> Ouch!!!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 5:05 PM, Roger RPF <rpf@bluemail.ch> wrote:
>>
>> > Well, I think it is an "english-, read-between-the-lines-,
>> > find-hidden-task-in-wording-, did-I-really-configure-what-THEY-want
>> exam"
>> > As non native english speaker the wording can get tricky.
>> >
>> > To me, only knowing the technology is not enough, you need to be able
to
>> do
>> > the stuff mentioned above as well...
>> >
>> > BUT, that's the game, we all know it....(even though, it doesn t make
it
>> > more acceptable for me...)
>> >
>> > regards
>> >
>> > Roger
>> >
>> > -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht-----
>> > Von: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] Im Auftrag
>> von
>> > robclav@gmail.com
>> > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 14. Januar 2009 21:52
>> > An: ccielab@groupstudy.com
>> > Betreff: Re: Changes to CCIE Lab and Written Exam Question Format and
>> > Scoring
>> >
>> > The main issue for a lot of people will be answer in the proper way in
>> > english. because untill now it wasnt an english exam I hope they give
>> you a
>> > queen english oxford certificate when you pass at least!!!! ;)
>> > BlackBerry de movistar, allm donde estis esta tu oficin@
>> >
>> >
>> > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________________________________
>> > Subscription information may be found at:
>> > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>> >
>> >
>> > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________________________________
>> > Subscription information may be found at:
>> > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>
>>
>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________________________________
>> Subscription information may be found at:
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