From: Gary Duncanson (garyduncanson@btinternet.com)
Date: Sun Nov 02 2008 - 15:55:40 ARST
Nothing beats *good* experience, in my experience. That said an alliance of
good experience and the CCIE gives you the best of both worlds. How that mix
pans out though, that's really down to the individual. Granted the CCIE
does not tick all the boxes you have listed there but it isn't designed to.
It provides a structured approach to deeper understanding of the how and the
why and should enable the practitioner to come to the table with more
capabilities and options for consideration concerning networking matters and
possibilities. More so than someone solely tuned into what they have around
them because it's a full time job running infrastructure and keeping up with
what you have to work with there. The vaunted CCDE might tick somemore of
those boxes, at least in the sense that some metrics are in place to help
ensure what is designed meets objectives as opposed to simply designing
something because you can. No comment on that as I haven't looked into yet.
In anycase that track is still very young so the jury is out. The experience
of practioners, customers and stakeholders will determine it's effectiveness
in real terms. No certificate covers everything.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Han Solo" <emaillists@me.com>
To: "Gary Duncanson" <garyduncanson@btinternet.com>
Cc: "Digital Yemeni" <digital.yemeni@gmail.com>; "Cisco certification"
<ccielab@groupstudy.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 4:01 PM
Subject: Re: IE Announcement
> Any network I have worked on that had 5 Time CCIE Teachers working on it
> was way off , way overly complicated , and no consideration for the
> operators of the network. Folks that have 4+ ccie's albeight , they are
> dedicated indivuduals , but they are theorists whom spend 70% of there
> time in lab's and have no concept of change control and IT operations.
> They want your money and that is it , when you stop giving them money
> they stop talking.. Certifications are great to provide a structured
> approach to follow to learn a defined skillset , but it does not mean you
> are a network engineer because you have 5 CCIE's .. The best way is to
> work in the field , build networks , deal with the politics of "People"
> not the technology... Most often it is not the technology that is causing
> the problem it is the Communication of the people operating the network ,
> that is the real skill . The best training you will ever get is go get a
> job at a large hospital or school , granted your not going to make the
> big bucks but you will learn real quick about communications , the
> business and the technology is typically last it is nothing more than a
> tool to support the business.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Nov 2, 2008, at 1:28 AM, Gary Duncanson wrote:
>
>> The vendors I know have plenty of experience to go around. I can vouch
>> for that and have over eleven years in. I would happily work along side
>> them.
>>
>> Regards
>> Gary
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Digital Yemeni"
>> <digital.yemeni@gmail.com
>> >
>> To: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
>> Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 9:14 PM
>> Subject: Re: IE Announcement
>>
>>
>>> IE's announcement - complete bullshit
>>> Don't believe the bullshit in the presentation.
>>> The number of kits comment is complete crap
>>> Nothing against Cisco? WTF!
>>> Customer blogs vendor neutral? My ass!
>>> !
>>> !
>>> !
>>> !
>>> Sandra,
>>> !
>>> Well said, WELL SAID.
>>> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>> what is this?! Professionalism? for a moment I thought we are in a fish
>>> market supported by "multiple-CCIEs" not a professional mailing list!
>>> Even if everything "YOU" do is for money, there is something important
>>> to
>>> know which is how you get that money!! Certainly not by showning your
>>> bad
>>> attitude and attacks to others "who by the way NEVER attack you namely
>>> or
>>> personally". If you don't like what they say or what they do, you are
>>> not
>>> obliged to listen to it! you are not asked to give your opinion!!
>>> worse, you
>>> not even allowed to show you wonderful attitdue not because you can't
>>> but
>>> because you must behave like a human before being a "professional
>>> person in
>>> a professional mailing list!!"
>>> |
>>> Good nights professionals!
>>>
>>> On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 6:50 PM, L Pham <ccie17030@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> He he: we must be in election year ;-))))
>>>>
>>>> Remember: the bottom line is what is in it for ME.
>>>> Loc
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 9:35 AM, Sandra Davis <sandradvs61@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> > IE's announcement - complete bullshit
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Internetwork Expert was not "selected" to be a part of the
>>>> program. IE
>>>> > applied to be a part of the program
>>>> >
>>>> > under tech 2000. THEY LOST the RFP!!! Plain and simple.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Yes, a CLP can offer training in multiple markets if they meet the
>>>> > requirements.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Investment protection? Scholarship program? Hell yes, you can
>>>> give away
>>>> > training, you just have to pay cisco for the royalties.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > The TRUTH is that IE would have to pay royalties to deliver
>>>> Cisco CCIE
>>>> > classes and pay royalties for workbooks.
>>>> >
>>>> > So, YES, this IS about money! Don't believe the bullshit in the
>>>> > presentation.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > The number of kits comment is complete crap. There is no longer
>>>> a kit
>>>> > requirement.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Don't want to flaunt out in public?! Then why mention how much $
>>>> you > are
>>>> > doing?! Come on!
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Nothing against Cisco? WTF! Of course you have to have Cisco
>>>> equipment
>>>> > because you offer Cisco grey market
>>>> >
>>>> > training.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Scrapping products? UNTRUE! You can "compliment" the current 360
>>>> > offering
>>>> > with current products.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Lower level certification classes you can develop pre-class study
>>>> material
>>>> > to make sure the student has the proper
>>>> >
>>>> > knowledge prior to entering a class.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > IE is suggesting shortcuts for becoming a CCIE. No concern for
>>>> actual
>>>> > learning!
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Nice slide! "Customer Success Manages" was supposed to be Customer
>>>> Success
>>>> > Managers. Great proof reading!
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > If classes are as bad as this presentation, then their classes
>>>> must > suck.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Mailing list issues? IE is one of the biggest issues that spams
>>>> the > hell
>>>> out
>>>> > of mailing lists!!!
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Customer blogs vendor neutral? My ass!
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Real world examples? Yeah, right. NONE of the IE instructors are
>>>> IN the
>>>> real
>>>> > world! They all do nothing but teach.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > CCNA in 6 months? If it takes someone 6 months to get a CCNA,
>>>> they > should
>>>> > look into a different line of work.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > This was basically ONE BIG F*N INFOMMERCIAL!!!! CRAP!!!
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>>> > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On
>>>> Behalf Of
>>>> > Narbik Kocharians
>>>> > Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 2:55 PM
>>>> > To: L. Jankok
>>>> > Cc: Brian McGahan; asequeira@internetworkexpert.com;
>>>> ccielab@groupstudy.com
>>>> > Subject: Re: IE Announcement
>>>> >
>>>> > unbelievable.....Unbelievable
>>>> >
>>>> > On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 12:59 PM, L. Jankok <ljankok@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> Great, I am viewing :)
>>>> >>
>>>> >> 2008/10/30 Brian McGahan <bmcgahan@internetworkexpert.com>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> > The recording can be viewed here:
>>>> >> > http://ieclass.internetworkexpert.com/p95047727/
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > More info will be posted on the details of the updates soon.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Thanks!
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Brian McGahan, CCIE #8593 (R&S/SP/Security)
>>>> >> > bmcgahan@internetworkexpert.com
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Internetwork Expert, Inc.
>>>> >> > http://www.InternetworkExpert.com
>>>> ><
>>>> http://www.internetworkexpert.com/> <
>>>> >> http://www.internetworkexpert.com/>
>>>> >> > Toll Free: 877-224-8987 x 705
>>>> >> > Outside US: 775-826-4344 x 705
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > L. Jankok wrote:
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > I am viewing Diego now, together with my 3 year old son :D
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > 2008/10/30 Anthony Sequeira
>>>> <asequeira@internetworkexpert.com> <
>>>> >> asequeira@internetworkexpert.com>
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > So sorry you experienced a problem with your live viewing.
>>>> We will
>>>> be
>>>> >> sure
>>>> >> > to make the recording available to all very soon.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Warmest regards,
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Anthony J. Sequeira, CCIE #15626, CCSI #23251
>>>> >> > Senior CCIE Instructor
>>>> >> > asequeira@internetworkexpert.com
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Internetwork Expert, Inc.
>>>> >> > http://www.InternetworkExpert.com
>>>> ><
>>>> http://www.internetworkexpert.com/> <
>>>> >> http://www.internetworkexpert.com/> >>
>>>> >> <http://www.internetworkexpert.com/
>>>> >
>>>> <
>>>> >> http://www.internetworkexpert.com/>
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Toll Free: 877-224-8987
>>>> >> > Outside US: 775-826-4344
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > ----- Original Message -----
>>>> >> > From: "L. Jankok" <ljankok@gmail.com> <ljankok@gmail.com>
>>>> >> > Sent: Thu, October 30, 2008 12:55
>>>> >> > Subject:Re: IE Announcement
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Well... I was in watching the presentation, than my screen
>>>> went >> > blank
>>>> so
>>>> >> I
>>>> >> > hitted F5 and got a page telling me that the meeting
>>>> >> > is already in progress.. pretty dissapointing :(
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > 2008/10/30 Atlanta CCIE <atlantaccie@gmail.com> <
>>>> atlantaccie@gmail.com>
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > I was not able to login either. Says recording will be
>>>> posted
>>>> lol
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 2:02 PM, Mike Leske <
>>>> mike.leske@googlemail.com
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > wrote:
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > I already got a mail stating that two many registered for the
>>>> event.
>>>> >> > I have to wait un
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > 2008/10/30 Andrew Dempsey <apdccie@gmail.com> <apdccie@gmail.com
>>>> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Pretty sure the news will hit this list within
>>>> minutes >> > anyway.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 1:52 PM, Ali Mousawi
>>>> >> > <mousawi.ali@gmail.com
>>>> >
>>>> <
>>>> >> mousawi.ali@gmail.com>
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > > > > wrote:
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > it seems no place for non IE customers :(
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 10:49 AM, Rick Mur <murserver@me.com> <
>>>> >> murserver@me.com>
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > wrote:
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Don't know if I break some NDA for it but:
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > http://ieclass.internetworkexpert.com/announcement/?launcher=false
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > log-in with your standard classroom account
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > On 30 okt 2008, at 18:46, Ali Mousawi wrote:
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Hello,
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Is the announcment in 15 mins? I signed up but how will i
>>>> join i
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > didnt
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > get
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > any link?
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >>
>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Subscription information may be found at:
>>>> >> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >>
>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Subscription information may be found at:
>>>> >> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >>
>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Subscription information may be found at:
>>>> >> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>> >> > Subscription information may be found at:
>>>> >> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>> >> > Subscription information may be found at:
>>>> >> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>> >> > Subscription information may be found at:
>>>> >> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > ----- End of original message -----
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>> >> > Subscription information may be found at:
>>>> >> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>> >> Subscription information may be found at:
>>>> >> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > --
>>>> > Narbik Kocharians
>>>> > CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
>>>> > www.MicronicsTraining
>>>> > www.Net-Workbooks.com <http://www.net-workbooks.com/>
>>>> > Sr. Technical Instructor
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>> > Subscription information may be found at:
>>>> > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>> > Subscription information may be found at:
>>>> > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> The more you know the more you forget!!
>>>
>>>
>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>
>>
>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________________________________
>> Subscription information may be found at:
>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
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