From: Antonie Henning - MWEB (AHenning@mweb.com)
Date: Tue Oct 07 2008 - 09:53:00 ART
Maybe you should set up a lab for them to do. IMO there should be a
balance. An interviewee that recently passed a ccna or ccnp exam could
possibly "sound" (BS baffles brains) more impressive than a CCIE that
passed the lab 10 years ago. We recently had a similar experiment. In a
nutshell we used a lab to do first round interviews. To determine
whether our interview lab is up to scratch we had some of the local
engineers do the lab and what was quite impressive was that the CCIE
from 8+ years ago (CCIE 6###) that hasn't configure bgp for the last 8
years did better on the lab than the guys that have been configuring bgp
for the last 8 years.
I am sure that if we ask a recently minted ccna what the common name for
802.1w is, it might make some CCIE's look foolish. Personally, my type
of interview would consist of a game of chess, irrespective of education
or experience.
Btw comparing toddlers to CCIE RS is restricted to CCIE RS&SP holders
only ;)
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
Peter Chuba
Sent: 07 October 2008 09:55 AM
To: 'Radioactive Frog'; 'Wes Stevens'
Cc: 'Joseph Brunner'; ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: RE: CCIE, i wish to take a different path !
Maybe you should have given them the DocCD! :) hehehe
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
Radioactive Frog
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 6:05 AM
To: Wes Stevens
Cc: Joseph Brunner; ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: Re: CCIE, i wish to take a different path !
While you're on the topic, I would like to share you a real story of
what
happend last week.
My bI've interviewed 2 CCIE's R&S guys and they can't even get the 3
wayTCP
handshake TCP-seqence number right.
I through 5questions to see how they know their stuffs. They were pretty
basic CCNA level questions.
Those questions were not about the BGP or OSPF or any dynamics protocol
but
just real basic stuffs.
another question was easy as a toddler could have done it but both CCIE
guys
(R&S ) couldn't do them right: the question was
R1------r2-------r3----------r4
as packet goes from r1 to r4 list the src/dst mac/ip address.
Damn!! I have seen those paper CCIE now! so I told my boss that u want
them
to go to the customer site and then ringing to Cisco TAC from the site
or
opening a case?
It's shame, how people can get such a pretistiagous cert without knowing
the
stuffs.
On the other hand I interviewed another CCNA guy and he holds masters
degree. He was 200 times bettern than those CCIE guys. He answerdd all
questions which were really below CCNA level.
So I said to my boss, hey, hire that CCNA guy. He would be the one who
will
do the job in the field and won't upset your customers.
Just sharing real life experience with you guys!! may be someone else
have
done this before.
-frog
On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 3:46 AM, Wes Stevens
<wrsteve33-gsccie@yahoo.com>wrote:
> No myth they are doing interviews before the bejing lab. As to who
would
> fail the interview that could pass the lab - is someone that memorized
> curent lab contents but did not have the experience to pass the
interview
> process.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Joseph Brunner <joe@affirmedsystems.com>
> To: Wes Stevens <wrsteve33-gsccie@yahoo.com>; Darby Weaver <
> ccie.weaver@gmail.com>
> Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Sent: Monday, October 6, 2008 11:08:56 AM
> Subject: RE: CCIE, i wish to take a different path !
>
> There is no interview... that was a myth right????
>
> Who would legitimately pass the lab, and fail some interview (perhaps
> because they don't speak well or are nervous, then be denied a number)
>
> Lets leaving the trolling to the CCNP board!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
Of
> Wes
> Stevens
> Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 9:49 AM
> To: Darby Weaver
> Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: Re: CCIE, i wish to take a different path !
>
> I was told the pass rate in bejing was extreamely high till the
interview
> exam was implemented. Then it dropped back to the 20% range.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Darby Weaver <ccie.weaver@gmail.com>
> To: Hobbs <deadheadblues@gmail.com>
> Cc: john matijevic <john.matijevic@gmail.com>; Tony Varriale
> <tvarriale@flamboyaninc.com>; Gary Duncanson
<garyduncanson@btinternet.com
> >;
> Cisco certification <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> Sent: Sunday, October 5, 2008 9:07:43 PM
> Subject: Re: CCIE, i wish to take a different path !
>
> Not to belabor the point. Jared, Narbik and others were quiet
eloquent
and
> to the point.
>
> Yes you can probably eventually pass the CCIE Lab on your own with
little
> or
> no use of any workbooks.
>
> It was done in the past by a few people still here to tell the tale
today.
>
> Would you want to? Ouch! Maybe not.
>
> I've found the CCIE Lab Exam to be littered with lots of things that
one
> can
> find on one's own but even reading the design guides a few times and
poring
> through the command references all the while typing at the CLI would
just
> take an enormous amount of attention to detail - very much quality
> attention
> to details.
>
> Now one could pass just learning the specifics on putting making a pod
> work. I think this is possible. But I do not think it is the most
> practical way to go about it.
>
> There are a lot of very intelligent people on-list and off-list who
take
> more than one trip to the CCIE Lunch Buffet. There's a reason. Maybe
we
> are all deluded... or maybe we just did not pay enough attention the
first
> time.
>
> Today lots of bloggers are passing of their reported first attempt.
I'd
> like to see if Cisco acknowledges this % of improvement. I've heard
some
> people claim their first attempt and yet they say elsewhere they went
some
> years before, etc. Not quite the first attempt. :)
>
> It may be possible, but it may not be feasible.
>
> There's a certain school of thought that firmly is entrenched in the
idea
> that this lab is very much an insider's exam.
>
> Knowing what I know, who I know and knew, and a few long years now
with
> hindsight being 20/20, I'd say that while it may not be intended to
have
> been an insider's exam, it may well have come to that.
>
> I do think that if one were quite experienced with a wide variety of
> technologies, that the lab difficulty diminishes with the inverse of
one's
> experiences with any given technology tested.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 7:19 PM, Hobbs <deadheadblues@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Ovais: Everybody's path IS different :)
> >
> > On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 5:01 PM, john matijevic
<john.matijevic@gmail.com
> > >wrote:
> >
> > > Hello Andrew,
> > > The author of the BGP and OSPF Command Reference books is name is
> > > Parkhurst,
> > > I had the pleasure of meeting him personally when I went for my
lab.
> > > Sincerely,
> > > John
> > >
> > > On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 6:19 PM, Tony Varriale <
> > tvarriale@flamboyaninc.com
> > > >wrote:
> > >
> > > > Comments inline.
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On
Behalf
> > Of
> > > > Gary
> > > > Duncanson
> > > > Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 3:24 PM
> > > > To: Ovais Iqbal
> > > > Cc: Cisco certification
> > > > Subject: Re: CCIE, i wish to take a different path !
> > > >
> > > > >Vendor products are certainly popular, however it is something
of
an
> > > urban
> > > > >myth that they are a relatively new phenomenon. Bootcamps and
> bootcamp
> > > > >labbooks have been around in one form or another for almost as
long
> as
> > > the
> > > > >CCIE track has been public. In other words they have been used
to a
> > > > greater
> > > >
> > > > >or lesser extent by just about every CCIE minted for years now.
> > Practice
> > > > >labs do not have to come from vendors though.
> > > >
> > > > This is obviously true for >= than the mid old-schoolers.
Before
> > > > ccwhocamp,
> > > > the primary learning experience was formal training and/or OTJ.
> > > >
> > > > The mid old-schoolers had 4 primary outlets: 1) ccwhocamp 2) own
> > > > experience/dev 3) groupstudy lab test answer posting 4) formal
> training
> > > >
> > > > I can assure you that #3 was a HUGE explosion in the CCIE
process
> > during
> > > > this time frame.
> > > >
> > > > >Cisco Press have done practice
> > > > >labs through books by Gorito and Duggan and Solie has practice
labs
> as
> > > > well.
> > > > >There was also 'fatkid' once upon a time but I digress :)
> > > >
> > > > Cisco Press was a factor after mid old-school, IMHO.
> > > > w
> > > > Fatkid? Where is fatty (I forgot his name...darnit)? I'm very
aware
> > of
> > > > the
> > > > labs that were "offered". I'm also aware of what was available
on
> the
> > > lab
> > > > exam in 2000 (or before). And, I'm not the only one.
> > > >
> > > > >In terms of challenge, regardless of the mix of materials you
use,
> you
> > > > still
> > > > >have to put the necessary time in to cover the lab footprint
and
get
> > to
> > > a
> > > > >point where you can recall the *right* solution to meet
particular
> > > > >requirements.
> > > >
> > > > I'll disagree here. Any idea of why certain regions of the
world
are
> > > > moving
> > > > towards an interview before you sit?
> > > >
> > > > >Vendor materials are helpful but
> > > > >not a magic bullet. You have to make the effort. Many people
have
> > > invested
> > > > >lots of money in multiple vendor sources and come unglued. A
vendor
> > > > product
> > > >
> > > > >wont give you determination or the inherent intellect to be
able to
> > > > >understand it all.
> > > >
> > > > Obviously you have to have the capability. But, the amount of
> > > organization
> > > > and material offered today from CCIE vendors is absolutely
amazing.
> If
> > > you
> > > > consider price too, it's mind blowing.
> > > >
> > > > >Cisco Press books and CCO offer an almost endless source of
> > > > >topologies you can lab up and play with at home and I recommend
you
> do
> > > so.
> > > >
> > > > Sure, Cisco Press is definitely the pinnacle of Cisconess. But,
> > consider
> > > > this. There are
> > > > some CP books that just don't measure up...some are way outside
of
> the
> > > > acceptable variation.
> > > >
> > > > Tv
> > > >
> > > > PS - Brad, no hard feelings on the whocamp stuff. I didn't
invent
> > that,
> > > I
> > > > just thought it was funny. :)
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Ovais Iqbal" <ovais.iqball@yahoo.com>
> > > > To: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> > > > Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 6:43 PM
> > > > Subject: CCIE, i wish to take a different path !
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Hi all, first of all i mean no disrespect to the gurus who are
> > helping
> > > > > CCIEs a
> > > > > lot, namely IE, IPexpert, Narbik and others,
> > > > > mostly when i read the success stories, one point is present
in
all
> > of
> > > > > them, x
> > > > > months configuring the routers using x vendors workbooks, i
just
> want
> > > to
> > > > > know
> > > > > something very simple, can some one pass the lab without these
> > > workbooks
> > > > ?
> > > >
> > > > > can
> > > > > someone suggest me a path that i shall take if i dont want to
use
> any
> > > of
> > > > > the
> > > > > vendors ? right now i think getting CCIE is not a challenge
any
> more,
> > > no
> > > > > offense, but thats the truth, look around and you will see a
hell
> lot
> > > > > increase
> > > > > in the production of CCIE as never seen before, i know more
and
> more
> > > ppl
> > > > > are
> > > > > inclined towards it but i think the real challenge is to take
the
> lab
> > > > > without
> > > > > using any of the workbooks, ( again no offense to the latest
CCIEs,
> i
> > > > > respect
> > > > > them all :-) ),
> > > > >
> > > > > Is there anyone who took the lab without using any vendors,
can
> > he/she
> > > > > shed
> > > > > some light on his/her preparation ??
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> > > > >
> > > > >
> >
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