From: Radioactive Frog (pbhatkoti@gmail.com)
Date: Tue Oct 07 2008 - 04:15:42 ART
Excatly. That was one of my question.
-frog
#21569
On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 6:09 PM, Gary Duncanson <garyduncanson@btinternet.com
> wrote:
> You would be suprised how many people can't do the TCP SYN, SYN ACK and
> sequencing. Mind you it's not directly tested. Stallings/Stevens are good
> books for this.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Radioactive Frog" <pbhatkoti@gmail.com
> >
> To: "Wes Stevens" <wrsteve33-gsccie@yahoo.com>
> Cc: "Joseph Brunner" <joe@affirmedsystems.com>; <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 6:05 AM
>
> Subject: Re: CCIE, i wish to take a different path !
>
>
> While you're on the topic, I would like to share you a real story of what
>> happend last week.
>>
>> My bI've interviewed 2 CCIE's R&S guys and they can't even get the 3
>> wayTCP
>> handshake TCP-seqence number right.
>> I through 5questions to see how they know their stuffs. They were pretty
>> basic CCNA level questions.
>> Those questions were not about the BGP or OSPF or any dynamics protocol
>> but
>> just real basic stuffs.
>>
>> another question was easy as a toddler could have done it but both CCIE
>> guys
>> (R&S ) couldn't do them right: the question was
>>
>> R1------r2-------r3----------r4
>>
>> as packet goes from r1 to r4 list the src/dst mac/ip address.
>>
>> Damn!! I have seen those paper CCIE now! so I told my boss that u want
>> them
>> to go to the customer site and then ringing to Cisco TAC from the site or
>> opening a case?
>>
>> It's shame, how people can get such a pretistiagous cert without knowing
>> the
>> stuffs.
>>
>>
>> On the other hand I interviewed another CCNA guy and he holds masters
>> degree. He was 200 times bettern than those CCIE guys. He answerdd all
>> questions which were really below CCNA level.
>>
>> So I said to my boss, hey, hire that CCNA guy. He would be the one who
>> will
>> do the job in the field and won't upset your customers.
>>
>> Just sharing real life experience with you guys!! may be someone else have
>> done this before.
>>
>> -frog
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 3:46 AM, Wes Stevens <wrsteve33-gsccie@yahoo.com
>> >wrote:
>>
>> No myth they are doing interviews before the bejing lab. As to who would
>>> fail the interview that could pass the lab - is someone that memorized
>>> curent lab contents but did not have the experience to pass the interview
>>> process.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----
>>> From: Joseph Brunner <joe@affirmedsystems.com>
>>> To: Wes Stevens <wrsteve33-gsccie@yahoo.com>; Darby Weaver <
>>> ccie.weaver@gmail.com>
>>> Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com
>>> Sent: Monday, October 6, 2008 11:08:56 AM
>>> Subject: RE: CCIE, i wish to take a different path !
>>>
>>> There is no interview... that was a myth right????
>>>
>>> Who would legitimately pass the lab, and fail some interview (perhaps
>>> because they don't speak well or are nervous, then be denied a number)
>>>
>>> Lets leaving the trolling to the CCNP board!
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
>>> Wes
>>> Stevens
>>> Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 9:49 AM
>>> To: Darby Weaver
>>> Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com
>>> Subject: Re: CCIE, i wish to take a different path !
>>>
>>> I was told the pass rate in bejing was extreamely high till the interview
>>> exam was implemented. Then it dropped back to the 20% range.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----
>>> From: Darby Weaver <ccie.weaver@gmail.com>
>>> To: Hobbs <deadheadblues@gmail.com>
>>> Cc: john matijevic <john.matijevic@gmail.com>; Tony Varriale
>>> <tvarriale@flamboyaninc.com>; Gary Duncanson <
>>> garyduncanson@btinternet.com
>>> >;
>>> Cisco certification <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
>>> Sent: Sunday, October 5, 2008 9:07:43 PM
>>> Subject: Re: CCIE, i wish to take a different path !
>>>
>>> Not to belabor the point. Jared, Narbik and others were quiet eloquent
>>> and
>>> to the point.
>>>
>>> Yes you can probably eventually pass the CCIE Lab on your own with little
>>> or
>>> no use of any workbooks.
>>>
>>> It was done in the past by a few people still here to tell the tale
>>> today.
>>>
>>> Would you want to? Ouch! Maybe not.
>>>
>>> I've found the CCIE Lab Exam to be littered with lots of things that one
>>> can
>>> find on one's own but even reading the design guides a few times and
>>> poring
>>> through the command references all the while typing at the CLI would just
>>> take an enormous amount of attention to detail - very much quality
>>> attention
>>> to details.
>>>
>>> Now one could pass just learning the specifics on putting making a pod
>>> work. I think this is possible. But I do not think it is the most
>>> practical way to go about it.
>>>
>>> There are a lot of very intelligent people on-list and off-list who take
>>> more than one trip to the CCIE Lunch Buffet. There's a reason. Maybe we
>>> are all deluded... or maybe we just did not pay enough attention the
>>> first
>>> time.
>>>
>>> Today lots of bloggers are passing of their reported first attempt. I'd
>>> like to see if Cisco acknowledges this % of improvement. I've heard some
>>> people claim their first attempt and yet they say elsewhere they went
>>> some
>>> years before, etc. Not quite the first attempt. :)
>>>
>>> It may be possible, but it may not be feasible.
>>>
>>> There's a certain school of thought that firmly is entrenched in the idea
>>> that this lab is very much an insider's exam.
>>>
>>> Knowing what I know, who I know and knew, and a few long years now with
>>> hindsight being 20/20, I'd say that while it may not be intended to have
>>> been an insider's exam, it may well have come to that.
>>>
>>> I do think that if one were quite experienced with a wide variety of
>>> technologies, that the lab difficulty diminishes with the inverse of
>>> one's
>>> experiences with any given technology tested.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 7:19 PM, Hobbs <deadheadblues@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Ovais: Everybody's path IS different :)
>>> >
>>> > On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 5:01 PM, john matijevic > <
>>> john.matijevic@gmail.com
>>> > >wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > Hello Andrew,
>>> > > The author of the BGP and OSPF Command Reference books is name is
>>> > > Parkhurst,
>>> > > I had the pleasure of meeting him personally when I went for my lab.
>>> > > Sincerely,
>>> > > John
>>> > >
>>> > > On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 6:19 PM, Tony Varriale <
>>> > tvarriale@flamboyaninc.com
>>> > > >wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > > > Comments inline.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > -----Original Message-----
>>> > > > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On > >
>>> > Behalf
>>> > Of
>>> > > > Gary
>>> > > > Duncanson
>>> > > > Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 3:24 PM
>>> > > > To: Ovais Iqbal
>>> > > > Cc: Cisco certification
>>> > > > Subject: Re: CCIE, i wish to take a different path !
>>> > > >
>>> > > > >Vendor products are certainly popular, however it is something of
>>> > > > >an
>>> > > urban
>>> > > > >myth that they are a relatively new phenomenon. Bootcamps and
>>> bootcamp
>>> > > > >labbooks have been around in one form or another for almost as > >
>>> > >long
>>> as
>>> > > the
>>> > > > >CCIE track has been public. In other words they have been used to
>>> > > > >a
>>> > > > greater
>>> > > >
>>> > > > >or lesser extent by just about every CCIE minted for years now.
>>> > Practice
>>> > > > >labs do not have to come from vendors though.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > This is obviously true for >= than the mid old-schoolers. Before
>>> > > > ccwhocamp,
>>> > > > the primary learning experience was formal training and/or OTJ.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > The mid old-schoolers had 4 primary outlets: 1) ccwhocamp 2) own
>>> > > > experience/dev 3) groupstudy lab test answer posting 4) formal
>>> training
>>> > > >
>>> > > > I can assure you that #3 was a HUGE explosion in the CCIE process
>>> > during
>>> > > > this time frame.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > >Cisco Press have done practice
>>> > > > >labs through books by Gorito and Duggan and Solie has practice > >
>>> > >labs
>>> as
>>> > > > well.
>>> > > > >There was also 'fatkid' once upon a time but I digress :)
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Cisco Press was a factor after mid old-school, IMHO.
>>> > > > w
>>> > > > Fatkid? Where is fatty (I forgot his name...darnit)? I'm very > >
>>> > aware
>>> > of
>>> > > > the
>>> > > > labs that were "offered". I'm also aware of what was available on
>>> the
>>> > > lab
>>> > > > exam in 2000 (or before). And, I'm not the only one.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > >In terms of challenge, regardless of the mix of materials you use,
>>> you
>>> > > > still
>>> > > > >have to put the necessary time in to cover the lab footprint and >
>>> > > >get
>>> > to
>>> > > a
>>> > > > >point where you can recall the *right* solution to meet particular
>>> > > > >requirements.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > I'll disagree here. Any idea of why certain regions of the world >
>>> > > are
>>> > > > moving
>>> > > > towards an interview before you sit?
>>> > > >
>>> > > > >Vendor materials are helpful but
>>> > > > >not a magic bullet. You have to make the effort. Many people have
>>> > > invested
>>> > > > >lots of money in multiple vendor sources and come unglued. A > > >
>>> >vendor
>>> > > > product
>>> > > >
>>> > > > >wont give you determination or the inherent intellect to be able >
>>> > > >to
>>> > > > >understand it all.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Obviously you have to have the capability. But, the amount of
>>> > > organization
>>> > > > and material offered today from CCIE vendors is absolutely amazing.
>>> If
>>> > > you
>>> > > > consider price too, it's mind blowing.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > >Cisco Press books and CCO offer an almost endless source of
>>> > > > >topologies you can lab up and play with at home and I recommend >
>>> > > >you
>>> do
>>> > > so.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Sure, Cisco Press is definitely the pinnacle of Cisconess. But,
>>> > consider
>>> > > > this. There are
>>> > > > some CP books that just don't measure up...some are way outside of
>>> the
>>> > > > acceptable variation.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Tv
>>> > > >
>>> > > > PS - Brad, no hard feelings on the whocamp stuff. I didn't invent
>>> > that,
>>> > > I
>>> > > > just thought it was funny. :)
>>> > > >
>>> > > > ----- Original Message -----
>>> > > > From: "Ovais Iqbal" <ovais.iqball@yahoo.com>
>>> > > > To: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
>>> > > > Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 6:43 PM
>>> > > > Subject: CCIE, i wish to take a different path !
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > > > Hi all, first of all i mean no disrespect to the gurus who are
>>> > helping
>>> > > > > CCIEs a
>>> > > > > lot, namely IE, IPexpert, Narbik and others,
>>> > > > > mostly when i read the success stories, one point is present in >
>>> > > > all
>>> > of
>>> > > > > them, x
>>> > > > > months configuring the routers using x vendors workbooks, i just
>>> want
>>> > > to
>>> > > > > know
>>> > > > > something very simple, can some one pass the lab without these
>>> > > workbooks
>>> > > > ?
>>> > > >
>>> > > > > can
>>> > > > > someone suggest me a path that i shall take if i dont want to use
>>> any
>>> > > of
>>> > > > > the
>>> > > > > vendors ? right now i think getting CCIE is not a challenge any
>>> more,
>>> > > no
>>> > > > > offense, but thats the truth, look around and you will see a hell
>>> lot
>>> > > > > increase
>>> > > > > in the production of CCIE as never seen before, i know more and
>>> more
>>> > > ppl
>>> > > > > are
>>> > > > > inclined towards it but i think the real challenge is to take the
>>> lab
>>> > > > > without
>>> > > > > using any of the workbooks, ( again no offense to the latest > >
>>> > > CCIEs,
>>> i
>>> > > > > respect
>>> > > > > them all :-) ),
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > Is there anyone who took the lab without using any vendors, can
>>> > he/she
>>> > > > > shed
>>> > > > > some light on his/her preparation ??
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > Thanks
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>> > > > >
>>> > > > >
>>> > _______________________________________________________________________
>>> > > > > Subscription information may be found at:
>>> > > > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>> > > > Subscription information may be found at:
>>> > > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>> > > > Subscription information may be found at:
>>> > > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>> > > Subscription information may be found at:
>>> > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________________________________
>>> > Subscription information may be found at:
>>> > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>
>>>
>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>
>>>
>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>
>>>
>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>
>>
>>
>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________________________________
>> Subscription information may be found at:
>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
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