From: Gary Duncanson (garyduncanson@btinternet.com)
Date: Tue Oct 07 2008 - 04:09:12 ART
You would be suprised how many people can't do the TCP SYN, SYN ACK and
sequencing. Mind you it's not directly tested. Stallings/Stevens are good
books for this.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Radioactive Frog" <pbhatkoti@gmail.com>
To: "Wes Stevens" <wrsteve33-gsccie@yahoo.com>
Cc: "Joseph Brunner" <joe@affirmedsystems.com>; <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 6:05 AM
Subject: Re: CCIE, i wish to take a different path !
> While you're on the topic, I would like to share you a real story of what
> happend last week.
>
> My bI've interviewed 2 CCIE's R&S guys and they can't even get the 3
> wayTCP
> handshake TCP-seqence number right.
> I through 5questions to see how they know their stuffs. They were pretty
> basic CCNA level questions.
> Those questions were not about the BGP or OSPF or any dynamics protocol
> but
> just real basic stuffs.
>
> another question was easy as a toddler could have done it but both CCIE
> guys
> (R&S ) couldn't do them right: the question was
>
> R1------r2-------r3----------r4
>
> as packet goes from r1 to r4 list the src/dst mac/ip address.
>
> Damn!! I have seen those paper CCIE now! so I told my boss that u want
> them
> to go to the customer site and then ringing to Cisco TAC from the site or
> opening a case?
>
> It's shame, how people can get such a pretistiagous cert without knowing
> the
> stuffs.
>
>
> On the other hand I interviewed another CCNA guy and he holds masters
> degree. He was 200 times bettern than those CCIE guys. He answerdd all
> questions which were really below CCNA level.
>
> So I said to my boss, hey, hire that CCNA guy. He would be the one who
> will
> do the job in the field and won't upset your customers.
>
> Just sharing real life experience with you guys!! may be someone else have
> done this before.
>
> -frog
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 3:46 AM, Wes Stevens
> <wrsteve33-gsccie@yahoo.com>wrote:
>
>> No myth they are doing interviews before the bejing lab. As to who would
>> fail the interview that could pass the lab - is someone that memorized
>> curent lab contents but did not have the experience to pass the interview
>> process.
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: Joseph Brunner <joe@affirmedsystems.com>
>> To: Wes Stevens <wrsteve33-gsccie@yahoo.com>; Darby Weaver <
>> ccie.weaver@gmail.com>
>> Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com
>> Sent: Monday, October 6, 2008 11:08:56 AM
>> Subject: RE: CCIE, i wish to take a different path !
>>
>> There is no interview... that was a myth right????
>>
>> Who would legitimately pass the lab, and fail some interview (perhaps
>> because they don't speak well or are nervous, then be denied a number)
>>
>> Lets leaving the trolling to the CCNP board!
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
>> Wes
>> Stevens
>> Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 9:49 AM
>> To: Darby Weaver
>> Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com
>> Subject: Re: CCIE, i wish to take a different path !
>>
>> I was told the pass rate in bejing was extreamely high till the interview
>> exam was implemented. Then it dropped back to the 20% range.
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: Darby Weaver <ccie.weaver@gmail.com>
>> To: Hobbs <deadheadblues@gmail.com>
>> Cc: john matijevic <john.matijevic@gmail.com>; Tony Varriale
>> <tvarriale@flamboyaninc.com>; Gary Duncanson
>> <garyduncanson@btinternet.com
>> >;
>> Cisco certification <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
>> Sent: Sunday, October 5, 2008 9:07:43 PM
>> Subject: Re: CCIE, i wish to take a different path !
>>
>> Not to belabor the point. Jared, Narbik and others were quiet eloquent
>> and
>> to the point.
>>
>> Yes you can probably eventually pass the CCIE Lab on your own with little
>> or
>> no use of any workbooks.
>>
>> It was done in the past by a few people still here to tell the tale
>> today.
>>
>> Would you want to? Ouch! Maybe not.
>>
>> I've found the CCIE Lab Exam to be littered with lots of things that one
>> can
>> find on one's own but even reading the design guides a few times and
>> poring
>> through the command references all the while typing at the CLI would just
>> take an enormous amount of attention to detail - very much quality
>> attention
>> to details.
>>
>> Now one could pass just learning the specifics on putting making a pod
>> work. I think this is possible. But I do not think it is the most
>> practical way to go about it.
>>
>> There are a lot of very intelligent people on-list and off-list who take
>> more than one trip to the CCIE Lunch Buffet. There's a reason. Maybe we
>> are all deluded... or maybe we just did not pay enough attention the
>> first
>> time.
>>
>> Today lots of bloggers are passing of their reported first attempt. I'd
>> like to see if Cisco acknowledges this % of improvement. I've heard some
>> people claim their first attempt and yet they say elsewhere they went
>> some
>> years before, etc. Not quite the first attempt. :)
>>
>> It may be possible, but it may not be feasible.
>>
>> There's a certain school of thought that firmly is entrenched in the idea
>> that this lab is very much an insider's exam.
>>
>> Knowing what I know, who I know and knew, and a few long years now with
>> hindsight being 20/20, I'd say that while it may not be intended to have
>> been an insider's exam, it may well have come to that.
>>
>> I do think that if one were quite experienced with a wide variety of
>> technologies, that the lab difficulty diminishes with the inverse of
>> one's
>> experiences with any given technology tested.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 7:19 PM, Hobbs <deadheadblues@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Ovais: Everybody's path IS different :)
>> >
>> > On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 5:01 PM, john matijevic
>> > <john.matijevic@gmail.com
>> > >wrote:
>> >
>> > > Hello Andrew,
>> > > The author of the BGP and OSPF Command Reference books is name is
>> > > Parkhurst,
>> > > I had the pleasure of meeting him personally when I went for my lab.
>> > > Sincerely,
>> > > John
>> > >
>> > > On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 6:19 PM, Tony Varriale <
>> > tvarriale@flamboyaninc.com
>> > > >wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > Comments inline.
>> > > >
>> > > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On
>> > > > Behalf
>> > Of
>> > > > Gary
>> > > > Duncanson
>> > > > Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 3:24 PM
>> > > > To: Ovais Iqbal
>> > > > Cc: Cisco certification
>> > > > Subject: Re: CCIE, i wish to take a different path !
>> > > >
>> > > > >Vendor products are certainly popular, however it is something of
>> > > > >an
>> > > urban
>> > > > >myth that they are a relatively new phenomenon. Bootcamps and
>> bootcamp
>> > > > >labbooks have been around in one form or another for almost as
>> > > > >long
>> as
>> > > the
>> > > > >CCIE track has been public. In other words they have been used to
>> > > > >a
>> > > > greater
>> > > >
>> > > > >or lesser extent by just about every CCIE minted for years now.
>> > Practice
>> > > > >labs do not have to come from vendors though.
>> > > >
>> > > > This is obviously true for >= than the mid old-schoolers. Before
>> > > > ccwhocamp,
>> > > > the primary learning experience was formal training and/or OTJ.
>> > > >
>> > > > The mid old-schoolers had 4 primary outlets: 1) ccwhocamp 2) own
>> > > > experience/dev 3) groupstudy lab test answer posting 4) formal
>> training
>> > > >
>> > > > I can assure you that #3 was a HUGE explosion in the CCIE process
>> > during
>> > > > this time frame.
>> > > >
>> > > > >Cisco Press have done practice
>> > > > >labs through books by Gorito and Duggan and Solie has practice
>> > > > >labs
>> as
>> > > > well.
>> > > > >There was also 'fatkid' once upon a time but I digress :)
>> > > >
>> > > > Cisco Press was a factor after mid old-school, IMHO.
>> > > > w
>> > > > Fatkid? Where is fatty (I forgot his name...darnit)? I'm very
>> > > > aware
>> > of
>> > > > the
>> > > > labs that were "offered". I'm also aware of what was available on
>> the
>> > > lab
>> > > > exam in 2000 (or before). And, I'm not the only one.
>> > > >
>> > > > >In terms of challenge, regardless of the mix of materials you use,
>> you
>> > > > still
>> > > > >have to put the necessary time in to cover the lab footprint and
>> > > > >get
>> > to
>> > > a
>> > > > >point where you can recall the *right* solution to meet particular
>> > > > >requirements.
>> > > >
>> > > > I'll disagree here. Any idea of why certain regions of the world
>> > > > are
>> > > > moving
>> > > > towards an interview before you sit?
>> > > >
>> > > > >Vendor materials are helpful but
>> > > > >not a magic bullet. You have to make the effort. Many people have
>> > > invested
>> > > > >lots of money in multiple vendor sources and come unglued. A
>> > > > >vendor
>> > > > product
>> > > >
>> > > > >wont give you determination or the inherent intellect to be able
>> > > > >to
>> > > > >understand it all.
>> > > >
>> > > > Obviously you have to have the capability. But, the amount of
>> > > organization
>> > > > and material offered today from CCIE vendors is absolutely amazing.
>> If
>> > > you
>> > > > consider price too, it's mind blowing.
>> > > >
>> > > > >Cisco Press books and CCO offer an almost endless source of
>> > > > >topologies you can lab up and play with at home and I recommend
>> > > > >you
>> do
>> > > so.
>> > > >
>> > > > Sure, Cisco Press is definitely the pinnacle of Cisconess. But,
>> > consider
>> > > > this. There are
>> > > > some CP books that just don't measure up...some are way outside of
>> the
>> > > > acceptable variation.
>> > > >
>> > > > Tv
>> > > >
>> > > > PS - Brad, no hard feelings on the whocamp stuff. I didn't invent
>> > that,
>> > > I
>> > > > just thought it was funny. :)
>> > > >
>> > > > ----- Original Message -----
>> > > > From: "Ovais Iqbal" <ovais.iqball@yahoo.com>
>> > > > To: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
>> > > > Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 6:43 PM
>> > > > Subject: CCIE, i wish to take a different path !
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > > Hi all, first of all i mean no disrespect to the gurus who are
>> > helping
>> > > > > CCIEs a
>> > > > > lot, namely IE, IPexpert, Narbik and others,
>> > > > > mostly when i read the success stories, one point is present in
>> > > > > all
>> > of
>> > > > > them, x
>> > > > > months configuring the routers using x vendors workbooks, i just
>> want
>> > > to
>> > > > > know
>> > > > > something very simple, can some one pass the lab without these
>> > > workbooks
>> > > > ?
>> > > >
>> > > > > can
>> > > > > someone suggest me a path that i shall take if i dont want to use
>> any
>> > > of
>> > > > > the
>> > > > > vendors ? right now i think getting CCIE is not a challenge any
>> more,
>> > > no
>> > > > > offense, but thats the truth, look around and you will see a hell
>> lot
>> > > > > increase
>> > > > > in the production of CCIE as never seen before, i know more and
>> more
>> > > ppl
>> > > > > are
>> > > > > inclined towards it but i think the real challenge is to take the
>> lab
>> > > > > without
>> > > > > using any of the workbooks, ( again no offense to the latest
>> > > > > CCIEs,
>> i
>> > > > > respect
>> > > > > them all :-) ),
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Is there anyone who took the lab without using any vendors, can
>> > he/she
>> > > > > shed
>> > > > > some light on his/her preparation ??
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Thanks
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > _______________________________________________________________________
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>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> _______________________________________________________________________
>> > > > Subscription information may be found at:
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>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> _______________________________________________________________________
>> > > > Subscription information may be found at:
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>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________________________________
>> > > Subscription information may be found at:
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>> >
>> >
>> > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________________________________
>> > Subscription information may be found at:
>> > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>
>>
>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________________________________
>> Subscription information may be found at:
>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>
>>
>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________________________________
>> Subscription information may be found at:
>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>
>>
>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________________________________
>> Subscription information may be found at:
>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>
>
> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> Subscription information may be found at:
> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
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