From: Wes Stevens (wrsteve33-gsccie@yahoo.com)
Date: Sun Oct 05 2008 - 17:50:24 ART
The CCDE right now is so new that not only are there no study guides, but very little info from Cisco as to what to study. All the give you is a very long list of books. Studying for it was challenging because of this, but very worthwhile.
I would argue that if the goal is not simply to get your CCIE number, but to build the strongest networking foundation while studying for your number then the workbooks are not necessarily the best route. It will take longer for sure, but you will be a better network eng for it and it will show up in your work.
----- Original Message ----
From: Jared Scrivener <jscrivener@ipexpert.com>
To: Ovais Iqbal <ovais.iqball@yahoo.com>; ccielab@groupstudy.com
Sent: Sunday, October 5, 2008 1:47:23 PM
Subject: RE: CCIE, i wish to take a different path !
Hi Ovais,
That's an interesting point you raised - interesting enough for me to write
a post about it.
You mention that you want a challenge, so my question in response is "Why?"
My second question is "Really?"
The CCIE is a measurement of applied knowledge, nothing more, nothing less.
When more people achieve that level of knowledge we see a greater increase
in the number of people who achieve CCIE status. Does that diminish the
level of knowledge any of us ascertained? No. In fact society is better off
for it.
There are many methods people can take in a pursuit of knowledge, only one
of which is to purchase workbooks, engage in rack time and attend boot
camps. However there is a reason that many students take this method - we as
training providers are specialists not only in the areas of knowledge that
the CCIE tests but also in devising methods to convey this knowledge. This
results in our students minimizing the time it takes them to succeed in
their objective - attainment of a CCIE.
It appears in your case that attainment of CCIE status may not be (entirely)
the challenge you desire. Perhaps you want to achieve something more and I
applaud that desire.
Given that the CCIE is the "level" of knowledge which you seek to use as
your benchmark, then an additional challenge could be to discover a better
method - your post indicates that this is something you are considering.
In defining the validity of a method of learning, the only variables I can
think of are "completeness of understanding" and "time to achieve
understanding". A third one, an extension of this is "ability to communicate
understanding" and that takes you from being a student to a teacher and is
the reason I choose to instruct.
The "completeness of understanding" is not set by you, but by Cisco in terms
of measurement. So for the purposes of discussion it cannot be changed by
you or I. Sure there is more to learn than just that of a single CCIE track,
but that is a separate topic to consider.
The "time to achieve understanding" is within your control. So I challenge
you - how fast can you achieve this? Throughout my life I have used this as
my benchmark to assess my intellectual achievements - did I learn, and how
fast did I learn - feel free to take this on as your challenge.
If you decide to accept the challenge, my next question is: How are you
planning on achieving the goal?
IPexpert and our competitors all provide training products, the measurement
of which is whether they assist in the process of attaining "completeness of
understanding" and minimising "time to achieve understanding" by our
students.
If our products are so verbose that they require students to take longer to
achieve the required level of understanding than necessary they are flawed.
If our products are too vague such that completing them doesn't elicit
understanding (measured by exam success) they are flawed. This is our
measurement of success.
If you believe that you can devise a better method, by all means do so. That
becomes not only an intellectual challenge, but one with lucrative rewards,
for if you can communicate your new method you can sell it and it would be
valuable - I know I'd pay for it.
Bear in mind that there will always be limitations. To gain knowledge you
(presumably) must refer to materials that already exist - be they from
Cisco, vendors (like us) or peers. On considering all sources of information
a method of selection needs to occur as to what materials have value to you,
and what sequence to evaluate them (sequencing is an important and often
overlooked element of preparation). You then need to create a mental
framework for analysing and storing that information.
The best method I know of for this is reading from theoretical sources
(gaining information), and practising on actual equipment (applying
knowledge). Our workbooks are designed to consolidate this process as
efficiently as possible.
Again, you may devise a better method, and I challenge you to do so.
I look forward now, in the spirit of competition, to seeing how you do this
(your method), how well you do this (if you pass) and how long it takes you
to do this. As a corollary to this, your determination is also of interest -
if your method is insufficient are you willing to revise it to succeed? This
is the ultimate benchmark by which all of us measure ourselves - did we get
our CCIE.
I'm not being at all sarcastic in this challenge (often my emails appear so)
- this is the measurement stick I use for my own success and I look forward
to learning from your process. I would warn you however - this may not be as
easy as it appears from the outset. :)
Cheers,
Jared Scrivener CCIE3 #16983 (R&S, Security, SP), CISSP
Technical Instructor - IPexpert, Inc.
Telephone: +1.810.326.1444
Fax: +1.810.454.0130
Mailto: jscrivener@ipexpert.com
Blog: jaredscrivener.com
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
Ovais Iqbal
Sent: Sunday, 5 October 2008 1:44 PM
To: ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: CCIE, i wish to take a different path !
Hi all, first of all i mean no disrespect to the gurus who are helping CCIEs
a
lot, namely IE, IPexpert, Narbik and others,
mostly when i read the success stories, one point is present in all of them,
x
months configuring the routers using x vendors workbooks, i just want to
know
something very simple, can some one pass the lab without these workbooks ?
can
someone suggest me a path that i shall take if i dont want to use any of the
vendors ? right now i think getting CCIE is not a challenge any more, no
offense, but thats the truth, look around and you will see a hell lot
increase
in the production of CCIE as never seen before, i know more and more ppl are
inclined towards it but i think the real challenge is to take the lab
without
using any of the workbooks, ( again no offense to the latest CCIEs, i
respect
them all :-) ),
Is there anyone who took the lab without using any vendors, can he/she shed
some light on his/her preparation ??
Thanks
Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
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