From: Hoogen (hoogen82@gmail.com)
Date: Thu Aug 07 2008 - 17:23:22 ART
Yep, exactly what I meant. Thanks for putting that in a better way Scott.
-Hoogen
On 8/7/08, Scott Morris <smorris@internetworkexpert.com> wrote:
>
> Hehehehe.. You're talking about simple bookeeping ideas here bearing
> nothing on what normal people use those terms for!
>
> Think of liability = expense and it'll be easier to swallow! (Yes, there
> are some exceptions, but I figure we aren't arguing the finer points of
> accounting methods here!)
>
> Employees are an expense no matter how good (or profitable) they happen to
> be. Now, the more profitable ones make them less of a "liability" in
> normal
> terms but no less of an "expense" by any definition.
>
> :)
>
>
> Scott Morris, CCIE4 #4713, JNCIE-M #153, JNCIS-ER, CISSP, et al.
> CCSI/JNCI-M/JNCI-ER
> Senior CCIE Instructor
>
> smorris@internetworkexpert.com
>
>
>
> Internetwork Expert, Inc.
> http://www.InternetworkExpert.com
> Toll Free: 877-224-8987
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>
> Knowledge is power.
> Power corrupts.
> Study hard and be Eeeeviiiil......
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> Gregg Malcolm
> Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 4:03 PM
> To: ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: Re: General Question
>
> I'm no accountant but if I bill someone @ $200/hr and pay him/her $50/hr,
> I'm making some pretty decent money for little cost (overhead - which I
> would call a liability!)
>
> If I don't have the employee who you term as a liability, I don't make
> money. Assets make money which this employee does. Lots of companies
> (especially gov contractors) do just this...
>
> Just my 2 cents..
>
> Gregg
>
> On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 3:30 PM, Hoogen <hoogen82@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Good one.. But I like to tell you in every company's accounts books
> > employees are always a liabilty not an asset. Hard truth but thats how
> > it works. If it is the other way around, the accounts guy in that
> > company is a total a******.
> >
> > -Hoogen
> >
> >
> > On 8/7/08, Johnny Phan <johnny_d_phan@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Joe always speaks the truth even though he's the bearer of bad news.
> > Just
> > > do a simple "network engineer" search on Monster or Dice and you
> > > will see the requirements. Cisco certification and skill has become
> > > something
> > like
> > > an after thought. Yes you need it but companies can try to tinger
> > > around with it. If it works, then great, even though its not best
> > > practice, etc...If it breaks, no problem, we'll just call the
> > > service provider or
> > an
> > > integrator and have them fix it.
> > >
> > > 1) No matter how skill an engineer is, he will NEVER make more than
> > > his manager. I am talking about regular full-time small/medium and
> > > even some large companies. You are screwed even more if your
> > > company spans across multiple states and HR decides you should get
> > > paid like you live in North Carolina when you live in California. I
> > > like to see the Brians and Scott Morris go work permanently in a
> > > medium size company making less than
> > 120K.
> > > They will pull their hair out.
> > > Work Arounds: Work multiple jobs ???
> > >
> > > 2) ISPs are starting to clamp down on their devices. Those
> > > companies
> > who
> > > have MPLS as their infrastructure probably know what I am talking
> about.
> > > They have "offerings" that include leasing of their routers, but you
> > don't
> > > get to touch them. It looks great in the IT budget because it's not
> > > a
> > big
> > > purchase when you are doing upgrades. Sooner or later, the upper
> > management
> > > will put one and one together and decide that since they control the
> > > routers, they don't need someone with great Cisco experience
> > > especially since that person can't even touch the routers. So you
> > > are left with troubleshooting data center layer 3 switch and closet
> problems, fun.
> > "During
> > > 90 degree summer days, the closet switch would reboot causing outage
> > > in specific areas, can you fix it". I don't know, does putting the
> > hot/burning
> > > power box in the same closet have anything to do with it ? Let me
> > > call
> > God
> > > and tell him to stop it with the hot weather. Also, with this voice
> > stuff
> > > coming along you get to troubleshoot phones, woo hoo, just like
> > > troubleshooting people's other end devices, like PCs, printers.
> > > Really people, is it too much to put in ten digits instead of 5?
> > > Just put
> > people
> > > you call often into speed dial.
> > > Work Around: None. Resistance is futile.
> > >
> > > 3) Raise is optional. Really? Inflation rate is 3% so if you are
> > getting
> > > paid the same because the company is not doing well, then you are
> > > getting paid less.
> > > Work Around: Quit and find a company that looks at IT as an asset,
> > > not a liability.
> > >
> > > 4) We can't find talented engineers in America. Hmm, who is saying
> > that,
> > > let me guess. They are integrators who will find some recent CCIE
> > > from a country I won't mention, with business Visas and paying them
> > > about half
> > of
> > > what they are charging the customers. You can't find anyone with
> > > CCM 6.0 experience? EVERYONE, and I mean EVERYONE, at a time will
> > > not have experience until they touch it. The secret is if this
> > > person is trust worthy enough to let him study up and touch it. For
> > > example, let's say
> > Joe
> > > is an expert at CCM 6.0, etc...then he is ask to upgrade to 7.0 or
> > > 8.0
> > when
> > > it comes out. Oh no, Joe doesn't know 8.0, I need someone with
> > experience.
> > > Let's call an integrator so they can bring someone who has
> > > experience,
> > from
> > > Dubai.
> > > Work Around: Hey ipexpert, internetworkexpert, how about offering a
> > course
> > > in not just passing the CCIE Voice, but how about upgrades and
> > > include caveats along with things you will see in the real world ?
> > > That way when Scott Morris looks for someone with CCM6.0 experience,
> > > he won't have to
> > look
> > > far.
> > >
> > > By the way, does anyone have a date in Dubai for September? I need
> > > to
> > swap
> > > dates because I am lazy and don't want to do it the fair way, which
> > > is to check the cisco site often for open dates like everyone else
> > > in the
> > world.
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Brunner" <
> > > joe@affirmedsystems.com>
> > > To: <yungli2008@gmail.com>; <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 12:44 PM
> > > Subject: RE: General Question
> > >
> > >
> > > A few years ago I was in a room and EVERYONE but me was a CISSP.
> > >> The cert had become a commodity and everyone started getting it in
> > >> like 2004. What are the odds 6 guys (3 it, 1 finance, 1 project
> > >> management, 1
> > >> facilities!) from 2 different companies would all have the same
> > >> CERTIFICATION?
> > >>
> > >> The CCIE is going through the same thing now. I recently went to a
> > >> technical interview for a consulting position... all 4 of us were
> > >> CCIE's ;) And that's just one small room, on planet earth.
> > >>
> > >> As times get tighter and IT gets more and more commonplace you need
> > >> to
> > do
> > >> A
> > >> LOT to keeping earning the amount of money to maintain your
> > >> family's standard of living. Don't be shocked to see these numbers
> > >> accelerate as more and more IT fields overlap (i.e. voice and data
> > >> = same dept in the
> > >> company)
> > >> and fewer folks are needed.
> > >>
> > >> I'll leave you with this;
> > >>
> > >> I went to a "must be CCIE interview once". They wanted 10 things,
> > systems,
> > >> email, backups, oh, yeah, and cisco". Cisco is really becoming an
> > >> afterthought to many organizations...
> > >>
> > >> "I'll take a C++ guy, who knows java, unix, shell scripts, oh, and
> > >> when he's not busy, he can re-design and admin my cisco network!"
> > >>
> > >> -Joe
> > >>
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On
> > >> Behalf Of yungli2008@gmail.com
> > >> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 3:25 PM
> > >> To: ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > >> Subject: General Question
> > >>
> > >> Experts
> > >> I couldn't understand the CCIE number, current total CCIEs 17660
> > >> but the current number is 21665.
> > >>
> > >> How cisco offer these numbers.... symmetrically or?
> > >>
> > >> For example last month one guy got #21395 now another one #21665,
> > >> within
> > a
> > >> month 270 CCIEs..? I can't believe?
> > >>
> > >> Li
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> > >>
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> > >>
> > >
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> > >
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