From: Gregg Malcolm (gregg.malcolm@gmail.com)
Date: Thu Aug 07 2008 - 19:22:39 ART
I'm not arguing that employee's salaries, benefits, etc. don't show up on
the balance sheet as an expense. What I *am* trying to highlight is that in
some environments the positive cash flow that someone might contribute is
more evident. For example, an IT person working for a commercial non IT
company might be classified as a liability more readily. It might make
sense to lay this person off in a cost cutting campaign whereas the gov
contractor would never 'cut' a paying position. This leads me to next
point. I suppose in the case the asset would be contract and not the person
- my bad I was in a hurry to leave work. Like I said, I'm no accountant.
I'm getting way off topic for this board, but since we are discussing
bookkeeping, would a homeowner consider their house an asset or liability?
I hear people all the time list their house as an asset but I would say it's
clearly a liability...
Gregg
On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 4:23 PM, Hoogen <hoogen82@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yep, exactly what I meant. Thanks for putting that in a better way Scott.
>
> -Hoogen
>
> On 8/7/08, Scott Morris <smorris@internetworkexpert.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hehehehe.. You're talking about simple bookeeping ideas here bearing
>> nothing on what normal people use those terms for!
>>
>> Think of liability = expense and it'll be easier to swallow! (Yes, there
>> are some exceptions, but I figure we aren't arguing the finer points of
>> accounting methods here!)
>>
>> Employees are an expense no matter how good (or profitable) they happen to
>> be. Now, the more profitable ones make them less of a "liability" in
>> normal
>> terms but no less of an "expense" by any definition.
>>
>> :)
>>
>>
>> Scott Morris, CCIE4 #4713, JNCIE-M #153, JNCIS-ER, CISSP, et al.
>> CCSI/JNCI-M/JNCI-ER
>> Senior CCIE Instructor
>>
>> smorris@internetworkexpert.com
>>
>>
>>
>> Internetwork Expert, Inc.
>> http://www.InternetworkExpert.com
>> Toll Free: 877-224-8987
>> Outside US: 775-826-4344
>> Online Community: http://tinyurl.com/6dmnsu
>> CCIE Blog: http://tinyurl.com/2nxxaq
>>
>> Knowledge is power.
>> Power corrupts.
>> Study hard and be Eeeeviiiil......
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
>> Gregg Malcolm
>> Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 4:03 PM
>> To: ccielab@groupstudy.com
>> Subject: Re: General Question
>>
>> I'm no accountant but if I bill someone @ $200/hr and pay him/her $50/hr,
>> I'm making some pretty decent money for little cost (overhead - which I
>> would call a liability!)
>>
>> If I don't have the employee who you term as a liability, I don't make
>> money. Assets make money which this employee does. Lots of companies
>> (especially gov contractors) do just this...
>>
>> Just my 2 cents..
>>
>> Gregg
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 3:30 PM, Hoogen <hoogen82@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Good one.. But I like to tell you in every company's accounts books
>> > employees are always a liabilty not an asset. Hard truth but thats how
>> > it works. If it is the other way around, the accounts guy in that
>> > company is a total a******.
>> >
>> > -Hoogen
>> >
>> >
>> > On 8/7/08, Johnny Phan <johnny_d_phan@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Joe always speaks the truth even though he's the bearer of bad news.
>> > Just
>> > > do a simple "network engineer" search on Monster or Dice and you
>> > > will see the requirements. Cisco certification and skill has become
>> > > something
>> > like
>> > > an after thought. Yes you need it but companies can try to tinger
>> > > around with it. If it works, then great, even though its not best
>> > > practice, etc...If it breaks, no problem, we'll just call the
>> > > service provider or
>> > an
>> > > integrator and have them fix it.
>> > >
>> > > 1) No matter how skill an engineer is, he will NEVER make more than
>> > > his manager. I am talking about regular full-time small/medium and
>> > > even some large companies. You are screwed even more if your
>> > > company spans across multiple states and HR decides you should get
>> > > paid like you live in North Carolina when you live in California. I
>> > > like to see the Brians and Scott Morris go work permanently in a
>> > > medium size company making less than
>> > 120K.
>> > > They will pull their hair out.
>> > > Work Arounds: Work multiple jobs ???
>> > >
>> > > 2) ISPs are starting to clamp down on their devices. Those
>> > > companies
>> > who
>> > > have MPLS as their infrastructure probably know what I am talking
>> about.
>> > > They have "offerings" that include leasing of their routers, but you
>> > don't
>> > > get to touch them. It looks great in the IT budget because it's not
>> > > a
>> > big
>> > > purchase when you are doing upgrades. Sooner or later, the upper
>> > management
>> > > will put one and one together and decide that since they control the
>> > > routers, they don't need someone with great Cisco experience
>> > > especially since that person can't even touch the routers. So you
>> > > are left with troubleshooting data center layer 3 switch and closet
>> problems, fun.
>> > "During
>> > > 90 degree summer days, the closet switch would reboot causing outage
>> > > in specific areas, can you fix it". I don't know, does putting the
>> > hot/burning
>> > > power box in the same closet have anything to do with it ? Let me
>> > > call
>> > God
>> > > and tell him to stop it with the hot weather. Also, with this voice
>> > stuff
>> > > coming along you get to troubleshoot phones, woo hoo, just like
>> > > troubleshooting people's other end devices, like PCs, printers.
>> > > Really people, is it too much to put in ten digits instead of 5?
>> > > Just put
>> > people
>> > > you call often into speed dial.
>> > > Work Around: None. Resistance is futile.
>> > >
>> > > 3) Raise is optional. Really? Inflation rate is 3% so if you are
>> > getting
>> > > paid the same because the company is not doing well, then you are
>> > > getting paid less.
>> > > Work Around: Quit and find a company that looks at IT as an asset,
>> > > not a liability.
>> > >
>> > > 4) We can't find talented engineers in America. Hmm, who is saying
>> > that,
>> > > let me guess. They are integrators who will find some recent CCIE
>> > > from a country I won't mention, with business Visas and paying them
>> > > about half
>> > of
>> > > what they are charging the customers. You can't find anyone with
>> > > CCM 6.0 experience? EVERYONE, and I mean EVERYONE, at a time will
>> > > not have experience until they touch it. The secret is if this
>> > > person is trust worthy enough to let him study up and touch it. For
>> > > example, let's say
>> > Joe
>> > > is an expert at CCM 6.0, etc...then he is ask to upgrade to 7.0 or
>> > > 8.0
>> > when
>> > > it comes out. Oh no, Joe doesn't know 8.0, I need someone with
>> > experience.
>> > > Let's call an integrator so they can bring someone who has
>> > > experience,
>> > from
>> > > Dubai.
>> > > Work Around: Hey ipexpert, internetworkexpert, how about offering a
>> > course
>> > > in not just passing the CCIE Voice, but how about upgrades and
>> > > include caveats along with things you will see in the real world ?
>> > > That way when Scott Morris looks for someone with CCM6.0 experience,
>> > > he won't have to
>> > look
>> > > far.
>> > >
>> > > By the way, does anyone have a date in Dubai for September? I need
>> > > to
>> > swap
>> > > dates because I am lazy and don't want to do it the fair way, which
>> > > is to check the cisco site often for open dates like everyone else
>> > > in the
>> > world.
>> > >
>> > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Brunner" <
>> > > joe@affirmedsystems.com>
>> > > To: <yungli2008@gmail.com>; <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
>> > > Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 12:44 PM
>> > > Subject: RE: General Question
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > A few years ago I was in a room and EVERYONE but me was a CISSP.
>> > >> The cert had become a commodity and everyone started getting it in
>> > >> like 2004. What are the odds 6 guys (3 it, 1 finance, 1 project
>> > >> management, 1
>> > >> facilities!) from 2 different companies would all have the same
>> > >> CERTIFICATION?
>> > >>
>> > >> The CCIE is going through the same thing now. I recently went to a
>> > >> technical interview for a consulting position... all 4 of us were
>> > >> CCIE's ;) And that's just one small room, on planet earth.
>> > >>
>> > >> As times get tighter and IT gets more and more commonplace you need
>> > >> to
>> > do
>> > >> A
>> > >> LOT to keeping earning the amount of money to maintain your
>> > >> family's standard of living. Don't be shocked to see these numbers
>> > >> accelerate as more and more IT fields overlap (i.e. voice and data
>> > >> = same dept in the
>> > >> company)
>> > >> and fewer folks are needed.
>> > >>
>> > >> I'll leave you with this;
>> > >>
>> > >> I went to a "must be CCIE interview once". They wanted 10 things,
>> > systems,
>> > >> email, backups, oh, yeah, and cisco". Cisco is really becoming an
>> > >> afterthought to many organizations...
>> > >>
>> > >> "I'll take a C++ guy, who knows java, unix, shell scripts, oh, and
>> > >> when he's not busy, he can re-design and admin my cisco network!"
>> > >>
>> > >> -Joe
>> > >>
>> > >> -----Original Message-----
>> > >> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On
>> > >> Behalf Of yungli2008@gmail.com
>> > >> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2008 3:25 PM
>> > >> To: ccielab@groupstudy.com
>> > >> Subject: General Question
>> > >>
>> > >> Experts
>> > >> I couldn't understand the CCIE number, current total CCIEs 17660
>> > >> but the current number is 21665.
>> > >>
>> > >> How cisco offer these numbers.... symmetrically or?
>> > >>
>> > >> For example last month one guy got #21395 now another one #21665,
>> > >> within
>> > a
>> > >> month 270 CCIEs..? I can't believe?
>> > >>
>> > >> Li
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>> > >>
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>> > >>
>> > >
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