From: Tony Varriale (tvarriale@flamboyaninc.com)
Date: Fri Jul 25 2008 - 11:56:06 ART
Comments inline...
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of John
Wayne
Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 7:34 AM
To: Muhammad Nasim
Cc: Marko Milivojevic; GS CCIE-Lab
Subject: Re: Good job CISCO!!!!
Listen if you want to stop the people from dumping on exams you have to
understand how it's happening and why it started in the first place.
1. The test centers need to be certified and audited - yes physcially
audited. When test questions are flying about and they are screenshots or
camera pics from a test center and are the exact questions. Houston there
is a problem.
>This is obviously a problem. It could be one/many reasons why Cisco
changed their testing partner.
2. Why on earth are there only 50 questions on a test bank. 60 questions?
70 questions? or even only 100 questions? Is the subject this week. A
quick trip to one of the sites mentioned will reveal that apparently many
test question banks only have just that many questions for the latest exams.
>There's obviously more than that.
3. CCIE Real Labs advertise that there are between 3 and 6 real labs for any
track.
>Well, it's modular. They can mix and match. But, from people I know that
>have taken the lab that many of times, they said about the same. You will
>see less and less unique material.
Cisco do you think there is a problem here? Really?
Right now with the new biometrics, and bring your first born child with you
to identify yourself many testing centers have simply closed.
>Let's face it, we are taking a test...not trying to launch nuclear
>missiles. There has to be a common ground that upholds the integrity but
>doesn't completely intrude on one's privacy. There are easy ways to do
>this.
There were a half dozen with 15 minutes of my house. Today I now have to
drive some 30+ minutes to take a Cisco exam.
>Not sure what your point is. Above you were essentially stating how easy
>it was to take screenies, and now you complain that some of those centers
>aren't in business? You can't have it both ways.
People I live in a city with over 2,000,000 people.
>I live near one with about 3M and I drive 15/20 minutes to a testing center
>I like. With traffic, it's easily double that. Not sure what your point
>is here.
Why is there only one testing center with only 1 seat in my city now? And
the lady there told me they would probably not be able to support the new
security features. They currently use cameras and actually have a
see-through glass mirror.
Cisco are you listening.
The problem with the tests and dumps was not the quality of the material.
It was the ability to find material to study with.
So people went and looked for it.
They started braindumping.
>And?
They started sharing. Even places like groupstudy which tried hard to
regulate NDA violations came about.
>I wasn't aware GS was regulating.
But let's face it the vendors hawk this board for more than just clients.
This is the that no doubt.
So if you want to stop it, stop it. But take the time to do it right.
>It's a little more difficult to do on a large scale.
1. Start with the test centers. Audit them. Pay a person to shop the
sites. Yes take an exam there anonymously. Is it what it appears to be?
Yes or No. Do it often.
>Yes, this would help and I agree.
2. Make learning materials accessible that are relevant to the exam in
question.
>Not sure what you mean here.
3. Hire a few guys to live on the braindump sites and infiltrate. Have
these guys do what they do and say what they say and nail them at the
source.
>I'm sure they already do that.
4. Shut down the sites that sell the exams. It comes down to only a couple.
Cisco verus 1 or 2 one person shops. That's it. Shut them down. Is that
impossible? Seems like it.
>It's not impossible. It can be difficult. And, I'm sure there is a
priority list. In 2000, JC said he was going to fix the SBC problem. It
was never even touched.
5. Setup a fake site and lure your the people who buy in. Make examples of
them. They like to share. Ban them from registering for exams. Period.
No mercy.
>I disagree with this. Cisco isn't in the business of doing this. In fact,
>this would compromise their integrity (and probably wouldn't even come
>close to passing the legal dept).
Once they can no longer take an exam or even register for one. This stuff
will slow down for sure.
Now there are two sides to this. Cisco will no longer have an army of
certified people. so much for the marketing.
It sounds great but it comes down to marketing. Cisco will not suffer lost
revenues to stop this problem. It does not pay to have less certified
people.
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