From: Joseph Brunner (joe@affirmedsystems.com)
Date: Mon Jun 09 2008 - 13:57:34 ART
LOL
"90k - 120k"
The economy must be worse than the actors on cnbc are harping about....
http://seeker.dice.com/jobsearch/servlet/JobSearch?op=302&dockey=xml/1/1/111
f2df6b717ec01584155f190bb0ba0@endecaindex&source=19&FREE_TEXT=ccie&rating=99
and this is a pretty intense job "50% travel" WTF...
now tell me what the CCIE is worth...
I made more than that when I was a CCNP 2 years ago...
-Joe
-----Original Message-----
From: Gregory Gombas [mailto:ggombas@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 10:23 AM
To: Joseph Brunner
Cc: Jonathan Greenwood II; Dane Newman; Brad Ellis; Chris Gray; Tony
Varriale; ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: Re: CCIE payrate in Los Angeles
I don't care how big a cut the middleman is taking, as long as I get a
fat paycheck at the end of the week!
My point is, why bust my ass getting Master certified, when I can't
find a company that will use even a tenth of my current skills?
I often laugh at the laundry list of job requirements recruiters send
me, knowing full well I wouldn't be working on half of those
technologies....
I'm curious - if I get master certification, will I then move up to
creating vlans?
On 6/4/08, Joseph Brunner <joe@affirmedsystems.com> wrote:
> Middlemen (staff augmentation "Consulting" firms, head hunters,
recruiters,
> gold partners)
>
> All want to sell their clients the *best*. If this year's best is a guy a
> who is a "master architect" instead of a "internet expert", well all the
> better.
>
> >Many employers are quite content at paying a CCIE big bucks to assign
> >IP addresses and configure switch ports all day!
>
> Learn how the game works.... someone is making money off you... remember,
> what Chris Rock said "Shaq is rich, the guy who signs Shaq's checks is
> WEALTHY!!!"
>
> If you are the *direct* full time employee at a company disregard this...
> If you are making X per your, rest assured you are being billing out 1.5x
to
> 5x (or more) per hour for your services....
>
> I met someone who worked for Uncle Sam. Some defense contractor staff
> augmentation firm (like Lockheed Martin, etc) was billing him out at $600
> per hour!!!!
>
> So if a CCIE is sitting there changing speed and duplex on switch ports
all
> day, its so some guy can make his $$$ on his connections USING your ass!
>
> Don't forget that.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gregory Gombas [mailto:ggombas@gmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 9:43 AM
> To: Jonathan Greenwood II
> Cc: Joseph Brunner; Dane Newman; Brad Ellis; Chris Gray; Tony Varriale;
> ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: Re: CCIE payrate in Los Angeles
>
> I'm kind of chiming in late here, but why would companies demand a
> certification more elite than the CCIE when most companies I have
> worked for don't even utilize a fraction of the CCIE's skill set?!?
>
> Many employers are quite content at paying a CCIE big bucks to assign
> IP addresses and configure switch ports all day!
>
>
> On 6/3/08, Jonathan Greenwood II <gwood83@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I don't think the CCIE Certification is anywhere on the ropes. There's
> > roughly only 20K that's walked this planet to receive this certification
> > since the the program started in the Mid 90's. That's still not
> > enough Certified to go around the globe compared to the # of Company's
and
> > networks that are out there.
> >
> > Eventually there will be alot of senior guys retiring within the next
> 10yrs
> > or so possibly unless they just can't give it up. But a new generation
> will
> > need to pickup where the pioneers have laid the ground work such as a
> young
> > buck like myself. I think the CCDE and CCMA are place for these
veterans
> to
> > move into as the technology grows to my understanding of what Cisco
> intends
> > to call the "MASTER" vs "Expert"
> >
> > Jonathan
> >
> > On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 1:26 PM, Joseph Brunner <joe@affirmedsystems.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > No.
> > >
> > > Bad idea...
> > >
> > > The cert is already distracted and diluted by all the others things
> (CCDE,
> > > CCMA, etc on the horizon).
> > >
> > > My clients all ask me "are you going to go for the CCDE". The masses
in
> IT
> > > know the bar has already been raised, and that the CCIE is now on the
> > > ropes...
> > >
> > > -Joe
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
Of
> > > Dane
> > > Newman
> > > Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 2:04 PM
> > > To: Brad Ellis
> > > Cc: Chris Gray; Tony Varriale; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > > Subject: Re: CCIE payrate in Los Angeles
> > >
> > > Anyone else think they need to make the CCIE for the different topics
a
> > > different?
> > >
> > > Such as..
> > >
> > > CCVE = Cisco Certified Voice Expert
> > > CCSE = Cisco Certifed Security Expert
> > > CCRSE = Cisco Certified Routing and Switching Expert
> > >
> > > ect...
> > >
> > > If you tell someone your a CCIE they kinda automatically assume your
> > > routing
> > > and switching
> > >
> > > And yeah please update the voice lab as Brad said.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 12:53 PM, Brad Ellis <brad@ccbootcamp.com>
wrote:
> > >
> > > > I concur with that. We are looking to hire an additional CCIE Voice,
> and
> > > > it's taking a while to find one. It's pretty easy to get an R&S CCIE
> > > > engineer these days (from a staffing perspective). R&S CCIE is still
> in
> > > > great demand, but voice is in even more demand - especially due to
the
> > > > number of Voice CCIEs that are out there. The only issue I have with
> the
> > > > whole Voice CCIE track, is that Cisco is still testing on 4.1. All
of
> > > > our deployments these days are 6.1. Anyone who >HAD< a 4.1, has
> already
> > > > upgraded to 5.x or 6.x. I don't have any customers who are running
> 4.1.
> > > > Hopefully the CCIE lab exam will soon change to reflect this...BEN?
:)
> > > >
> > > > thanks,
> > > > Brad Ellis
> > > > CCIE#5796 (R&S / Security)
> > > > CCSI# 30482
> > > > CEO / President
> > > > CCBOOTCAMP - A Cisco Sponsored Organization (SO)
> > > > Email: brad@ccbootcamp.com
> > > > Toll Free: 877-654-2243
> > > > International: +1-702-968-5100
> > > > Sydney, Australia: +61 2 8080 2725
> > > > Toronto, Canada: +1-416-238-0441
> > > > Skype: skype:ccbootcamp?call
> > > > FAX: +1-702-446-8012
> > > > YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
> > > > Training And Remote Racks: http://www.ccbootcamp.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
> Of
> > > > Chris Gray
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 9:27 AM
> > > > To: 'Tony Varriale'; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > > > Subject: RE: CCIE payrate in Los Angeles
> > > >
> > > > Its not that much better here in the UK. I have years of experience
> > > > (Started
> > > > for MFS Datanet in 1994). Have worked on stacks of kit most of which
> has
> > > > gone (netedge, Xyplex, Bay, GDC, Cascade, Wellfleet, Stratacom)
which
> is
> > > > why
> > > > I am working for this CCIE. Need to keep up with Cisco.
> > > >
> > > > But in the UK, its hard to get a job in engineering. Pre sales is
not
> a
> > > > problem, but if you want to walk into an MPLS engineering role, at a
> > > > decent
> > > > salary rate (#75K and above) its almost impossible.
> > > >
> > > > I engaged a silver partner a few weeks back, they are offering #65K
> for
> > > > a
> > > > pre sales role, but must have CCIE.
> > > >
> > > > I had a recruitment 'consultant' tell me that CCIE R&S is common, it
s
> > > > the
> > > > CCIE VOICE I should have. Do these people realise what we put
> ourselves
> > > > through to get this certification? I bet it s a dam site more than
> they
> > > > go
> > > > through to become a self labelled 'consultant'!
> > > >
> > > > Anyway, Keep up the good work!
> > > >
> > > > KRIZ
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
> Of
> > > > Tony
> > > > Varriale
> > > > Sent: 03 June 2008 16:06
> > > > To: ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > > > Subject: RE: CCIE payrate in Los Angeles
> > > >
> > > > I would rather be in OH at that pay rate. $110k in LA is tough.
> > > >
> > > > Tony
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
> Of
> > > > Morris, Jason L.
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 9:43 AM
> > > > To: R.S. CCIE; Joseph Brunner
> > > > Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > > > Subject: RE: CCIE payrate in Los Angeles
> > > >
> > > > I have no idea what the market in LA is like. I live in Cincinnati
> and
> > > > was just looking at a 'cost of living calculator', the numbers you
> guys
> > > > are throwing out are way low for the market here. According to CNN
> > > > Money 110k in LA is worth just a little over 67k in Cincinnati.
I've
> > > > got 2 guys on my team who just got their CCNA since joining the
> company
> > > > that are making that.
> > > >
> > > > Is the market in LA really that bad? If so I'll never bitch about
> being
> > > > stuck in the Midwest ever again.
> > > >
> > > > Jason Morris
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
> Of
> > > > R.S. CCIE
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 2:51 AM
> > > > To: Joseph Brunner
> > > > Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > > > Subject: Re: CCIE payrate in Los Angeles
> > > >
> > > > :-(
> > > >
> > > > That really hurts ...... Ouch!
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 11:40 PM, Joseph Brunner
> > > > <joe@affirmedsystems.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > You don't find a job at all
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Walk through a big data center all those cabinets/cages there
are
> a
> > > > lot
> > > > > of smart hungry tech guys out of work right now
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > You are not alone .
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -Joe
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ------------------------------
> > > > >
> > > > > *From:* R.S. CCIE [mailto:r.s.cciestudy@gmail.com]
> > > > > *Sent:* Tuesday, June 03, 2008 2:34 AM
> > > > > *To:* Tony Schaffran (GS)
> > > > > *Cc:* Joseph Brunner; Roger; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > > > > *Subject:* Re: CCIE payrate in Los Angeles
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > What is the worst case scenario though? That is what I like to
know
> > > > .....
> > > > > :-)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sun, Jun 1, 2008 at 10:03 AM, Tony Schaffran (GS) <
> > > > > groupstudy@cconlinelabs.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > A CCIE with no experience, you would be lucky to get $90K
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Tony Schaffran
> > > > > Network Analyst
> > > > > CCIE #11071
> > > > > CCNP, CCNA, CCDA,
> > > > > NNCDS, NNCSS, CNE, MCSE
> > > > >
> > > > > www.cconlinelabs.com
> > > > > Your #1 choice for online Cisco rack rentals.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On
Behalf
> > > > Of
> > > > >
> > > > > Joseph Brunner
> > > > > Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 12:35 AM
> > > > > To: 'Roger'; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > > > > Subject: RE: CCIE payrate in Los Angeles
> > > > >
> > > > > I was joking friend...
> > > > >
> > > > > So we do agree!
> > > > >
> > > > > I just finished a 28 hour marathon network overhaul and I'm home
> > > > firing up
> > > > > dynamips. Don't let your skill set get weakened, even for a few
> hours
> > > > to
> > > > > sleep.
> > > > >
> > > > > I was offered a whopping $112k a year for my Jedi skills in NYC
just
> > > > the
> > > > > other day... the economy is $@&ked! That was at a fortune 25
> > > > company!!!!
> > > > > There are like 1000's of CCIE's out of work... Citigroup, Bear
> Sterns,
> > > > > BofA,
> > > > > Wachovia, Merrill Lynch, Morgan, Hedge funds, these guys are
> bleeding
> > > > cash
> > > > > and are dropping IT engineering staff like there's no tomorrow...
> lots
> > > > of
> > > > > smart guys with no dojo looking for work right now...
> > > > >
> > > > > That's about $2800 every two weeks after taxes... that MIGHT fill
up
> > > > my gas
> > > > > tank, and put a few groceries in my house... LOL
> > > > >
> > > > > Guys, hit the books harder than ever if you want to swim through
the
> > > > next 3
> > > > > or 5 years...
> > > > >
> > > > > -Joe
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On
Behalf
> > > > Of
> > > > > Roger
> > > > > Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 3:05 AM
> > > > > To: ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > > > > Subject: RE: CCIE payrate in Los Angeles
> > > > >
> > > > > Man I hate to disagree with Joseph (and I don't all that often)
> > > > >
> > > > > If you are brand new CCIE, and I see that you have less then 5
years
> > > > exp
> > > > > in large-mid size networks I won't pay better then 110-125 (with
> > > > bonus).
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I have seen about 3-7 CCIE's recent in about the high 18xxx's &
> > > > 19xxx's
> > > > > they've been able to answer CCIE questions however their real
world
> > > > > problem solving has made me offer them much less. Reason: if they
do
> > > > not
> > > > > have a wide breath of experience (2 of them never worked on
Cat65XX)
> > > > > more time in training and supporting them will be required from
> > > > team/me.
> > > > > We had one that said he had worked a lot of 6509's and was a nice
> guy
> > > > so
> > > > > I took him to our server room as part of the interview and asked
him
> > > > > about some of the gear as I pointed it out. He couldn't tell me
> which
> > > > > blade in the 6509 was the sup.
> > > > >
> > > > > HOWEVER if you are going to work for a cisco vendor (gold silver
> etc)
> > > > or
> > > > > you have 6+ years, then Joseph is about right, well I hope he is
=)
> > > > >
> > > > > Good Journey!
> > > > > Roger
> > > > >
> > > > > > -------- Original Message --------
> > > > > > Subject: RE: CCIE payrate in Los Angeles
> > > > > > From: "Joseph Brunner" <joe@affirmedsystems.com>
> > > > > > Date: Sat, May 31, 2008 10:49 pm
> > > > > > To: "'R.S. CCIE'" <r.s.cciestudy@gmail.com>, "'Cisco
> certification'"
> > > > > > <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > $140,000 with 20% bonus in writing.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Anything less and I'll say lance Armstrong has more cajones than
> > > > you, LA
> > > > > > cabronito Vato!
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On
> Behalf
> > > > Of
> > > > > R.S.
> > > > > > CCIE
> > > > > > Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 1:04 AM
> > > > > > To: Cisco certification
> > > > > > Subject: CCIE payrate in Los Angeles
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What would be the minimum offer (as an employee) should a brand
> new
> > > > CCIE
> > > > > > accept without hurting the CCIE prestige ? And this brand new
CCIE
> > > > only
> > > > > has
> > > > > > experience on 2600, 3800 routers.....etc. No experience on those
> BIG
> > > > > horses.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> _______________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > Subscription information may be found at:
> > > > > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> _______________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > Subscription information may be found at:
> > > > > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> _______________________________________________________________________
> > > > > Subscription information may be found at:
> > > > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> _______________________________________________________________________
> > > > > Subscription information may be found at:
> > > > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> _______________________________________________________________________
> > > > > Subscription information may be found at:
> > > > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> _______________________________________________________________________
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> > > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> _______________________________________________________________________
> > > > Subscription information may be found at:
> > > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> _______________________________________________________________________
> > > > Subscription information may be found at:
> > > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> _______________________________________________________________________
> > > > Subscription information may be found at:
> > > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> _______________________________________________________________________
> > > > Subscription information may be found at:
> > > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> > >
> > >
> > >
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