From: nrf (noglikirf@hotmail.com)
Date: Tue May 13 2008 - 00:54:41 ART
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ernest McCaleb" <emccaleb@gmail.com>
To: "Jamie Brogdon" <jamie.brogdon@verizon.net>
Cc: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>; <comserv@groupstudy.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 9:27 PM
Subject: Re: How to Become a CCIE v2
> Jamie,
>
> Relax, he's simply a troll. Whenever the words "college" and "ccie"
> appear
> in a thread he's awakened.
Who's really the troll here? Am I the one who brought up the Navy Nuclear
Power School? Am I the one who brought up affirmative action? Or the
notion (ridiculous, in my opinion) of top-tier MBA's flipping burgers at
McDonalds?
Seems to me that other people are perfectly free to bring up whatever is on
their minds. So why can't I do the same?
>
> E
>
> On Sun, May 11, 2008 at 9:17 PM, Jamie Brogdon <jamie.brogdon@verizon.net>
> wrote:
>
>> NRF,
>>
>> Can you please stop the tirade?
>>
>> To be honest, nobody cares whether you are or are not an IE. Nobody
>> cares whether you think there should be a limited number of attempts.
>> Nobody cares whether you think the CCIE is less valuable than a college
>> degree. Basically, nobody cares!
>>
>> Let's get back to the reason we are here... AND that is to do knowledge
>> transfer for folks who want to better themselves... THE END!
>>
>> Jamie Brogdon
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
>> nrf
>> Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 3:43 AM
>> To: ccielab@groupstudy.com; comserv@groupstudy.com
>> Subject: Re: How to Become a CCIE v2
>>
>>
>> >What the difference if a person sits the CCIE Lab 20 times and then
>> >passes or
>> takes 20 - 30 Vendor >CCIE Labs and then passes in the first attempt.
>> I've seen people fail after using the vendors 20-30 labs >too on the
>> first try.
>>
>> Pray tell, what exactly is a "vendor CCIE lab"? How exactly does one
>> pass a "vendor CCIE lab"?
>>
>> Now, if you're referring to people using practice labs, then that's
>> really the answer to your question. They're PRACTICE, and by
>> definition, you don't really pass a "practice" lab because that's not a
>> real attempt. That would be like the Patriots saying that they won all
>> of their "practice" Superbowls, so now they deserve to win the actual
>> Superbowl. No, practice is practice. You practice to prepare to win
>> the real game.
>>
>> Which leads, again, to the key difference that I have been illustrating.
>> You can "play" the real CCIE over and over again until they finally
>> pass. But the Patriots can't "play" the Superbowl over and over until
>> they finally win. Similarly, in the example you raised, you can't attend
>> the Navy Nuclear Power program over and over until you finally pass.
>>
>> >My point is that brute forcing a CCIE Lab need not mean that one simply
>>
>> >goes
>> to the CCIE Lab more than 1-3 >times. I assume there are more that 3,
>> 6, or even 20 current CCIE Labs at any given time anyway. So what
>> >difference does it make?
>>
>> I think I explained this quite clearly before - please read my posts
>> again. Like I said, if you keep taking the exam over and over again, you
>> are eventually going to get a version of the test that asks you
>> questions that you know well (and doesn't ask you questions that you
>> don't know well). Either that, or you are going to get a version that
>> you've seen before. It's a simple matter of statistics.
>>
>>
>> >What's the difference? Please explain. There is some value to
>> becoming a
>> CCIE or people would not >even both taking the lab more than once
>> anyway, would they?
>>
>> I never said there was no value in becoming a CCIE. In fact, it is
>> PRECISELY because there is value in the process is why people are
>> spending time debating these points. After all, why debate something
>> that has no value anyway?
>>
>> The issue is that the ability to take the exam infinite times DEVALUES
>> the process. If Cisco were to place reasonable limits to the number of
>> attempts,
>> then the process would be MORE valuable. Having infinite attempts
>> inevitably
>> means that some people are simply not going to prepare properly,
>> figuring that they might get lucky, and even if they don't, who cares,
>> it's not that much money and not that much time anyway, a notion that is
>> exacerbated if your employer is paying.
>>
>> >NRF are you a CCIE?
>>
>> Does it matter?
>>
>> Let me put it to you this way. Let's say I had in fact passed the CCIE.
>> Would you now change your mind? Be honest.
>>
>> If the honest answer is no, you wouldn't change your mind, then it
>> doesn't really matter if I'm a CCIE, now does it?
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Isabella Figarella
>> To: Ernest McCaleb
>> Cc: nrf ; ccielab@groupstudy.com ; comserv@groupstudy.com
>> Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 3:08 AM
>> Subject: Re: How to Become a CCIE v2
>>
>>
>> NRF,
>>
>> What the difference if a person sits the CCIE Lab 20 times and then
>> passes or takes 20 - 30 Vendor CCIE Labs and then passes in the first
>> attempt. I've seen people fail after using the vendors 20-30 labs too
>> on the first try.
>>
>> My point is that brute forcing a CCIE Lab need not mean that one
>> simply goes to the CCIE Lab more than 1-3 times. I assume there are
>> more that 3, 6, or even 20 current CCIE Labs at any given time anyway.
>> So what difference does it make?
>>
>>
>>
>> What's the difference? Please explain. There is some value to
>> becoming a
>> CCIE or people would not even both taking the lab more than once anyway,
>> would they?
>>
>> NRF are you a CCIE?
>>
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>>
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>>
>
>
> --
> Ernest McCaleb
>
> _____________________________________________________________________
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