From: Lucy Favaloro (lucyf@cv.net)
Date: Tue May 06 2008 - 15:33:30 ART
What is a brute force CCIE?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Colin McNamara" <Colin@2cups.com>
To: "A.G. Ananth Sarma (GMail)" <ananth.sarma@gmail.com>
Cc: "Joseph Brunner" <joe@affirmedsystems.com>; "Himawan Nugroho"
<hnugroho@gmail.com>; "groupstudy" <ccielab@groupstudy.com>;
<comserv@groupstudy.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 1:39 PM
Subject: Re: How to Become a CCIE v2
> CCMA = Cisco Certified Master Archetect, or Master Internetwork
> Architect.. the name hasn't been officially decided upon yet.
>
> --
> Colin McNamara
> (858)208-8105
> CCIE #18233,RHCE,GCIH http://www.colinmcnamara.com
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/colinmcnamara
>
> "The difficult we do immediately, the impossible just takes a little
> longer"
>
>
> A.G. Ananth Sarma (GMail) wrote:
>> BTW, what is CCMA?
>>
>> Ananth
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 9, 2008 at 1:56 PM, Joseph Brunner <joe@affirmedsystems.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>> Passing the elite level and world's toughest certification from Cisco
>>>> Systems
>>>>
>>> Would this be the one they are walking away from to create the CCDE,
>>> CCMA,
>>> and CCOT (operating thetan?)
>>>
>>> And the same one that lately employers hold in line with the CCNA
>>>
>>> "Must be CCIE, or a strong CCNA" (see dice, 2 weeks ago)
>>>
>>> Just checking, because before I add my stars to my shoulder bars, I was
>>> just
>>> Asking for feedback...
>>>
>>> Joe,
>>> CCMS (master skeptic)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
>>> Himawan Nugroho
>>> Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 12:27 AM
>>> To: groupstudy; comserv@groupstudy.com
>>> Subject: How to Become a CCIE v2
>>>
>>> Hi everyone,
>>> I hope I don't just waste everyone's bandwidth.
>>> I made the new version of "How to Become a CCIE" (v2) and hopefully
>>> it's useful for CCIE candidates. You may want to check the following
>>> as well:
>>>
>>> How to Become a CCIE v2 @ amazon - with the list of some books I read
>>> during CCIE SP preparation:
>>> http://www.amazon.com/gp/richpub/syltguides/fullview/RLUWDJWTD4FN2/
>>>
>>> How to Become a CCIE @ amazon - with list of some books I used during
>>> CCIE Security preparation (the original how-to version, may be
>>> outdated, written on Feb 2006):
>>> http://www.amazon.com/gp/richpub/syltguides/fullview/BYNHY05D4X84/
>>>
>>> Summary of the journey in passing 3 CCIE labs:
>>> http://brokenpipes.blogspot.com/2007/09/triple-ccie-history-in-making.html
>>>
>>> The very first post I made after passing the last lab:
>>> http://brokenpipes.blogspot.com/2007/08/triple-ccie.html
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Himawan Nugroho
>>>
>>>
>>> How to Become a CCIE v2
>>>
>>> Passing the elite level and world's toughest certification from Cisco
>>> Systems, tips from someone who has done it three times
>>> By Himawan Nugroho, CCIE#8171 (R&S, Security, SP)
>>> Inevitable -- http://brokenpipes.blogspot.com
>>>
>>> I was digging through my own blog archive and found that my first post
>>> about How to Become a CCIE is quite old and need to get updated. In
>>> fact, I'm thinking to modify it in such a way so the same principle
>>> should be applied to any CCIE tracks, and even to any top level
>>> certification from other vendor. Without any intention to re-invent my
>>> own writing, I just put the updates and I tried to make it short this
>>> time. So if you'd like to read more about my experience taking the lab
>>> 3 times, I suggest you to read the original version and all related
>>> posts, starting with the summary of my journey.
>>>
>>> Btw, in case you haven't noticed I'm trying to learn how to sell by
>>> using marketing hypes, hence the words "elite level", "world's
>>> toughest" and "from someone who has done it three times" yeah, right
>>> :)
>>>
>>> 1. You still need to ask yourself "what's the point?"
>>> It's still a very tough challenge. It's still a long and tiring
>>> process. You will spend lots of efforts and money to get it. You still
>>> need to sacrifice your spare time and social life. So you should have
>>> at least one good reason why you want to do CCIE. And don't try to
>>> fake the reason. No one can give you the answer and I bet no one other
>>> than you really cares what it is. But it's important for you because
>>> this might be the only thing that can keep you going, that can wake
>>> you up from your laziness, that can make you come out from your
>>> frustration in the middle of your journey.
>>>
>>> Once you know and believe in your reason, then decide which track you
>>> want to pursuit. Follow your heart, do only the track you like.
>>> Continue with collecting the information about that specific track:
>>> read the CCIE blueprint for both written and lab exam. Read Networkers
>>> slides to get a brief picture about the exam format and sample of the
>>> question (Yes they have a session for this, I remember I read and
>>> listened to the presentation conducted by CCIE SP proctors).
>>>
>>> 2. Use the mid-level certification
>>> Now the step for all CCIE tracks are very clear and they all have
>>> mid-level certification (except CCIE storage). So if you want to take
>>> CCIE in Routing & Swithing you should learn CCNP. For CCIE Service
>>> Provider you should start with CCIP. For Voice it's CCVP. And for
>>> Security it's CCSP (the new Security lab doesn't require extensive
>>> knowledge of routing & switching anymore, you may check its blueprint
>>> v2). Remember, using this mid-level certification doesn't mean you
>>> have to pass it.
>>>
>>> If you are one of the guys who wrote me email to say that
>>> certification is useless, want to take CCIE just to prove how good you
>>> are, doesn't want to waste time with CCNA, CCNP/IP/SP/VP then it's
>>> fine. Don't take the exam but you can still utilize the resources to
>>> plan your study. The base knowledge for CCIE is already covered in the
>>> mid-level certification. So do the obvious and follow the flow: read
>>> the books for the mid-level of track you want to pursuit even you
>>> don't have to take the exam. Passing the mid-level exam is important
>>> just as a review to ensure you have really understood the material
>>> covered by the certification. And you may want to get your knowledge
>>> to some extend to be certified by Cisco that can be considered a
>>> reward in your journey even you haven't completed it.
>>>
>>> 3. A new way to build your home lab
>>> Practice extensively in the lab is still the key to pass CCIE. But for
>>> certain tracks, R&S and SP, you can practice CCIE lab without having
>>> any real equipments. I have built a step-by-step guidance to do this
>>> with dynamips. Dynamips is a very popular emulator for Cisco IOS and
>>> now some people have released several front-end interface such as
>>> dynagen or GNS3 to make it easier to setup and build the topology.
>>> It's an emulator to provide real router environment that can trick the
>>> real Cisco IOS so it will boot in normal PC. So it's still need the
>>> real Cisco IOS software, and please don't ask me to send you this.
>>>
>>> Many people still wrote me email asking this question: is it possible
>>> to pass CCIE only with dynamips? Yes, it is. I have seen some of my
>>> friends did this. In fact, I did all my practice for CCIE SP only with
>>> (censored), something similar as dynamips. Censored = internal info to
>>> Cisco employees heheh. I'm planning to take the top level
>>> certification from other vendor (guess who :)) using a similar
>>> emulator only. I want to do it just to utilize my spare time, to prove
>>> my point here, and obviously for fun.
>>>
>>> You may still require to build home lab, or rent it online, for other
>>> CCIE tracks.
>>>
>>> 4. Passing written test still doesn't prove anything
>>> This is still the same point as my original post. You can read the
>>> written exam blueprint and compare it with the lab. Take the written
>>> test and feel its coverage. Then setup your lab after that, start
>>> doing the workbook, and feel the difference. For some tracks, studying
>>> for written test doesn't add any value for the lab preparation.
>>>
>>> For me, I don't count the step to pass written test as part of my
>>> checklist to pass the lab. After you pass written exam, you are
>>> eligible to register for the lab. And that's what it's all about.
>>> Passing written test doesn't mean you are half-CCIE. It doesn't mean
>>> you are 20% or even 10% ready to take the lab. I count it as Step 0.
>>> From the written test you should start practicing in the lab and build
>>> the percentage of your progress. Use the lab blueprint as your
>>> guidance. Once you cover 100% in the list then you may be ready for
>>> your first attempt. Well, this is not always the case. I covered only
>>> 80% and passed in my first attempt. But don't count on my experience!
>>>
>>> So my point here is: never count passing written test as part of your
>>> CCIE lab preparation. Just look at it as administrative step required
>>> to register for the lab.
>>>
>>> 5. Read, read and read, then practice
>>> I won't list all the books that I read to prepare for all my CCIE
>>> labs. They are just so many of them! And sometime you just need to
>>> read few chapters from one book. The must-read book list is different
>>> for every track and may not updated. But you can start by checking on
>>> the book list from CCIE website. If you think it's still too much,
>>> then I suggest you to again use the Lab Exam Blueprint as your
>>> guidance. Read about one scope of technology at a time. Read from CCO,
>>> since this is Cisco certification so it always makes sense to check
>>> the configuration guide and technical tips from their website.
>>> Material from Networkers (slides with sound) is still a good resource,
>>> and I think you can get this from Networkers Online.
>>>
>>> Google is always our best friend. And you may be interested to
>>> subscribe for online books library such as Safari Books online. Check
>>> the list of their books first before you pay! The benefit of reading
>>> from a website like Safari is they provide a google-seach to find
>>> specific topic you want to read from several books.
>>>
>>> 6. Fast and Furious may not the trend anymore
>>> Indeed you still need the speed in typing. I guess it will be
>>> difficult to pass CCIE if you still use only two fingers to type and
>>> always look at your keyboard when you do so. There is just not enough
>>> time! But it was a different experience when I did my R&S and Security
>>> with my SP lab. In the first two, there are many independent
>>> technology that I can skip to come back later on if I don't know the
>>> answer. So my strategy at that time was to answer all questions that I
>>> know the obvious answers first. Then I went back to answer some of the
>>> questions that I'm not too sure about it. And the rest of the time was
>>> to answer all questions that I have no clue, and I used to depend on
>>> Documentation CD or restricted CCO documentation websites to find the
>>> answers. So normally I tried to complete 70-80% of the lab before
>>> lunch, since I know I need to spend many hours to read from
>>> documentation CD.
>>>
>>> But in SP, it was a different story. Many topics are connected to
>>> another topics, many topics are built based on another topics as
>>> underlying protocol, and all decision we make to answer one topic may
>>> affect our answer for the topic we build on top of it. So the strategy
>>> that works for me at that time was "do it once, and do it right". I
>>> needed to make sure I had answered the question correctly before I
>>> moved to the next question (unless it's independent feature that I can
>>> skip). Even I can type IOS command quite fast but at that time I had
>>> only 1 hour left to re-check my work. And documentation CD is not our
>>> best friend anymore in SP lab. There is no time to read it and
>>> actually to be able to build a working topology all topics covered in
>>> the lab must be understood thoroughly, unless it's related to features
>>> or enhancements.
>>>
>>> 7. Join the community
>>> There is no doubt about this. Learn from others' experience and share
>>> your own experience. Check the archive for all previous discussions.
>>> Answer the questions in the forum in order to get the answers for your
>>> questions to the forum. Build a healthy discussion forum! Respect each
>>> other and always think those people who are willing to answer are not
>>> getting paid for that so don't be rude and push to get answers (unless
>>> you join a commercial forum or the forum that is created by vendor to
>>> answer your questions related to the product/workbook you purchase
>>> from them).
>>>
>>> Same as what I wrote in my original post, it would be good if you can
>>> build a small discussion forum in your area that can meet offline.
>>> It's always better to have someone to share your frustration or
>>> listening for someone's experience to boost the spirit while having
>>> coffee together. CCIE is a one-man-journey type of experience but as I
>>> said in the original post, I was happy just to know there were others
>>> out there who might be doing the same thing and facing the same
>>> challenges. You are not the only one, even you are alone who must open
>>> the door, Neo.
>>>
>>> 8. Asking the right question is an art
>>> Try to ask some silly questions or obvious questions that any CCIE lab
>>> proctors are not allowed to answer are not recommended. They are there
>>> in the lab to clarify the question, and sometime they can provide you
>>> hints to the answer. So use this chance wisely because you don't want
>>> the proctors mark your face in his brain as someone who asks him the
>>> answer for CCIE lab.
>>>
>>> More into that, I think it's really good to build a culture on how to
>>> ask a question effectively. I received many emails asked me how to
>>> become a CCIE even now still working on CCNA? That's easy, pass your
>>> CCNA first! Or I have seen some people throw one line question to the
>>> forum: how can I configure MPLS VPN? Why don't you spend a little bit
>>> of your time to read the website, use google, RTFM, try it in your lab
>>> and when you are really stuck you can send your specific question with
>>> all required information such as the config and topology.
>>>
>>> Learn how to ask effectively.
>>> We all definitely need this even for the life outside CCIE lab.
>>>
>>> 9. Understand the lab question
>>> I was not born in english-speaking country. And even I have spent 6
>>> years working overseas, with English as daily business language, it
>>> was still difficult for me to understand some of the lab question. For
>>> my CCIE SP lab all the questions were straight forward. I went to the
>>> proctor only because I found some vague words and since I know how to
>>> ask I could even get the hints after I clarified the words with the
>>> proctor. So they are there in the lab to help you to clarify the
>>> questions. But that's all.
>>>
>>> And I found out when some lab questions are so confusing, it's better
>>> to sit back and look at the topology as a whole and a unit. So try to
>>> understand what we are trying to build in the lab from helicopter
>>> view, not from the device or configuration perspective. For example,
>>> when I did my SP lab I looked at the drawing, read the questions,
>>> tried to understand what kind of network I have to build with all
>>> traffic flow and policy then it became easier for me when I worked on
>>> each question to put the configuration.
>>>
>>> 10. Skeptical attitude might the one you need the most
>>> Trust no one, trust no solution. Don't trust the configuration guide
>>> in Cisco website. Don't believe what people say or write in the forum.
>>> Don't trust the configuration and solution written in Ciscopress
>>> books. Don't even trust the solution from the vendor for those CCIE
>>> workbooks that you must pay for it!
>>>
>>> I'm not saying that all those resources are bad and should not be
>>> trusted. What I'm trying to say here is you should not trust any
>>> solution unless you prove it in your lab. It may work in the book but
>>> not in your case because you use different IOS. You may read it and
>>> think you have already understood the technology but then when it
>>> doesn't work in the lab only you realize there is a missing part that
>>> you need to discover. And some people either make a typo in their
>>> solution or answer it with one way because of some consideration that
>>> you may not able to see.
>>>
>>> So never stop asking: Why? How come it's possible? Why the solution
>>> use that way? What if I answer it with this way? How to prove the
>>> concept really works? What if I add this on top of that? How to answer
>>> this question if I modify or add with that requirement? And so on.
>>>
>>> 11. CCIE is nothing but a mind game
>>> You still need to read lots of books. You still need to practice
>>> extensively. You still need to make the strategy and plan your study
>>> accordingly. But on top of that, you really need the right mindset and
>>> attitude to pass. Other than being skeptical and consistently test the
>>> solution in the lab, you must be positive most of the time. You should
>>> believe you can achieve your target if you really spend efforts in
>>> doing so. Avoid unnecessary discussion and long debate about why you
>>> need to become a CCIE (you should do that in Step 1 above). Leave your
>>> discussion group if they keep telling you it's very difficult to pass
>>> CCIE and you won't be able to make it because you don't have what it
>>> takes to pass. Or they say you don't have same opportunity as the
>>> others who can pass. Everyone has the same chance to pass. During my
>>> journey I have proved that it's not a matter of time, nor it's a
>>> matter of support from the company or how many resources you have.
>>> It's all about the mindset.
>>>
>>> And other than being positive, you should develop ability to be
>>> adaptable as well, to make you ready for any surprises in the lab. You
>>> should know how to analyze a problem and use the right approach to
>>> solve it. This is required to ensure you can understand the
>>> requirements in the lab and choose the right method to answer. You
>>> need to be able to make decision and handle situation under pressure
>>> within limited amount of time. And you don't risk your life in taking
>>> this CCIE anyway! So relax, try your best to be prepared, extremely
>>> prepared, but in the end if you make mistakes and fail, you lose
>>> nothing but the cost to take the lab. On the other side you will
>>> definitely learn something from your failure and gain more than what
>>> you lose.
>>>
>>> So again, Everyone has the same chance to pass.
>>> If someone tells you the otherwise, ask him to talk to me ;)
>>>
>>> 12. Enjoy every moment of it
>>> What's the point to do something if you don't enjoy it? Again, this is
>>> the reason why Step 1 is very crucial. It's very important to follow
>>> your heart. Because pursuing CCIE requires you to be focus and
>>> consistent, so it will be difficult if you don't know why you want to
>>> do this in the first place. You must sacrifice your spare time and
>>> social life so it's really important for those around who care to you
>>> to be part of the game. Discuss your plan with them and try to still
>>> make some contact with other human beings when you are not geeking out
>>> in the lab.
>>>
>>> I remember when I did my security I still spent some time with my
>>> family to go to the beach, even my mind was in
>>> Firewall-ACL-to-allow-BGP-traffic-with-NAT and
>>> IDS-fine-tuning-to-send-alert-only-after-certain-hits. I sacrificed my
>>> sleep to gain extra time to study. I sacrificed my lunch. I sacrificed
>>> my time that I normally used to chit chat with colleagues. But I still
>>> had fun doing my lab since at the same time I played the Matrix or the
>>> Simpsons next to my hyperterminal. And not to mention all those Linkin
>>> Park songs that I used to play over and over continuously.
>>>
>>> And when you are preparing for CCIE, be in the moment. Make a 6-months
>>> study plan but do one thing at the time. If you haven't passed the
>>> written then do this as Step 0. If you haven't setup the lab then
>>> start reading documentation about the emulator or search for the
>>> hardware on ebay. If you must deal with busy schedule at work, try to
>>> have fun by read CCIE material in between your busy time or steal some
>>> time by locking yourself inside the toilet and read in there (I'm
>>> still doing this until now!). Feel every aspect of the journey. Be
>>> grateful when you have even a very short time to make progress in your
>>> study. And always try to enjoy every moment of it.
>>>
>>>
>>> Okay, let's say you pass. You may ask: now what?
>>> Don't ask me. Ask yourself.
>>>
>>> CCIE is just the beginning of a bigger journey. There are several
>>> other CCIE tracks to chase or other exciting things to do in life such
>>> as working in large scale project where you have to use all your
>>> technical skills along with your ability to handle much complex
>>> situation. But frankly speaking, until now I still haven't found
>>> another journey that could offer such tense atmosphere, learning
>>> experience, wide coverage of technology within short time, and fun all
>>> together outside CCIE. All the time was just for me and my lab.
>>>
>>> As I wrote in my own post after I passed my 3rd lab:
>>> CCIE was the only time when the world makes sense.
>>>
>>> Have fun, everyone.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________________________________
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>>
>>
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