From: Joseph Brunner (joe@affirmedsystems.com)
Date: Tue Apr 15 2008 - 19:05:36 ART
How this benefit Larry;
100k a year to use for my CCIE studies... and it's all tax deductible?
Who at Cisco other than Giancarlo could get that? (he left right?)
I think my company has better benefits than Cisco...
That all the first class flights, rental cars, work books, rack rentals,
And laptops leases any aspiring 5-star general could ever want...
Joe "black jack" Brunner
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Letterman (lletterm) [mailto:lletterm@cisco.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 5:38 PM
To: Gary Duncanson; Joseph Brunner
Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: RE: contract or perm?
Gary,
Agreed, My company benefits basically render most of his post as BS..But
then I know where he comes from,
So I just let it go usually...
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
Gary Duncanson
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 3:28 PM
To: Joseph Brunner
Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: Re: contract or perm?
Joe,
Are you basically saying anyone who is a hardworking loyal company man
in
this day and age is a dork?
I just want to check before I ever consider being a hardworking, loyal
company man again. Not that it will affect my decision but I will
consider
it!
I agree food is getting more expensive. Cultivate your garden!
Regards
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joseph Brunner" <joe@affirmedsystems.com>
To: <rodrigo.gutierrez@nsn.com>; <dane.newman@gmail.com>;
<gary.duncanson@googlemail.com>
Cc: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 9:19 PM
Subject: RE: contract or perm?
> There is no stability benefit to having a full time j.o.b..
>
> You can be let go at any time, for almost any reason, with no
severance
> pay.
> If broke my leg right now as a contractor, I still have 2 months (at
> least)
> of invoices due in that have already been billed for work done.
>
> So my severance pay is cushioned in to my billing operations.... (try
that
> on a full time basis).
>
> Many friends with children and wives I know left long time full time
jobs
> with 2 WEEKS of severance pay.
>
> Also it's about respect. We work in the private sector (most of us).
The
> only way to show an employee respect- is by how much MONEY you pay
them.
> All
> the parking, training, all that stuff can be offered in the employer's
> best
> interest (tax write-offs, product purchase credits for training, etc).
It
> aint getting any cheaper to live, that's for sure. So what good is
hope,
> if
> my kids want to eat milk and bread today?
>
> If you are working weekends and extra hours at night and not being
paid
> cash
> money every pay day, then you are a sucker. Want to come work for me?
> I'll give you a Manhattan parking garage, catered lunch, and porno
dvd's,
> and a Mark Hamill autographed Lightsaber from 1983... You just keep
> working
> nights and weekends for me for that flat salary.
>
> -Joe
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rodrigo.gutierrez@nsn.com [mailto:rodrigo.gutierrez@nsn.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 4:06 PM
> To: dane.newman@gmail.com; gary.duncanson@googlemail.com
> Cc: joe@affirmedsystems.com; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: RE: contract or perm?
>
> It also depends of the company you want to work for. The company I
work
> right now, contractors make more money daily but they have no
benefits,
> no training and are treated differently company wise(no parking, no
> insurance, etc). If you want to make more money go contract, if you
want
> to make carrier in a company you want to grow and eventually become
> manager or so go full time. Also you are suppose to have more
stability
> when u r full time employee(although now days same stuff).
>
> Regards,
>
> Rod
>
>
>
>
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On
>>Behalf Of ext Dane Newman
>>Sent: Martes, 15 de Abril de 2008 02:55 p.m.
>>To: Gary Duncanson
>>Cc: Joseph Brunner; ccielab@groupstudy.com
>>Subject: Re: contract or perm?
>>
>>There is good and bad to both. I have been contracting free
>>lance now for about 6 months and would never go back. As a
>>perm employee I worked every weekend and till midnight more
>>times then not and hated every unpaid min of it. It seems the
>>more you know and the better you are at your job the more they
>>demand of you. I would never ever go back to full time employement.
>>
>>
>>Heres a question for Joseph I know you mentioned cheap way for
>>health insurance what was that for New Yorkers again?
>>
>>Dane
>>
>>
>>On 4/15/08, Gary Duncanson <gary.duncanson@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> The permy also gets holiday pay, sick pay and the *potential* of
>>> career progression. Don't forget that. It's important as the
>>metric in
>>> terms of earnings between permy and contractor contract.
>>>
>>> Personally Im paid by the hour yes, but I do not stop the
>>clock nor do
>>> I bill for overruns..unless they are exceptionally long.
>>>
>>> Contract or permy..the infrastructure needs defending. Having come
>>> through support earning stripes through the years before joining the
>>> designer 'officer ranks' I understand that.
>>>
>>> As for police, and fire..well I don't think that's a fair comparison
>>> at all. Confront the situations those guys have to deal with Joe, I
>>> think you would shit your pants buddy and forget your hourly rate.
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joseph Brunner" <
>>> joe@affirmedsystems.com>
>>> To: "'Gary Duncanson'" <gary.duncanson@googlemail.com>; <
>>> ccielab@groupstudy.com>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 8:14 PM
>>> Subject: RE: contract or perm?
>>>
>>>
>>> All that matters is that you are paid BY THE HOUR...
>>> >
>>> > If you work for a full-time job you have to work weekends, nights
>>> > and other "maintenance periods" for FREE!
>>> >
>>> > The hourly employee gets the bets of both worlds... weekdays to
>>> > attend meetings, do designs, discuss the plan, and
>>weekends to keep
>>> > the clock ticking at a nice hourly rate!
>>> >
>>> > Do not short your family or yourself! Police, fire, and civil
>>> > service often are paid by the hour- aren't you worth it?
>>> >
>>> > -Joe
>>> >
>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>> > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com]
>>On Behalf
>>> > Of Gary Duncanson
>>> > Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 1:42 PM
>>> > To: ccielab@groupstudy.com
>>> > Subject: contract or perm?
>>> >
>>> > Group,
>>> >
>>> > I realise that this could potentially turn into a difficult thread
>>> > but I think those with emotional intelligence will prevent that!
>>> >
>>> > I wonder if folks could post the benefits of being
>>contract or permy
>>> > these days in terms of cisco network/engineer/designer employment.
>>> >
>>> > Things have changed..
>>> >
>>> > In 1997 companies charged $2000 dollars a day (per technician) for
>>> > Joe's idiot son to install Windows 95 according to the idiots
>>> > instructions to move from Novell to NT..*sigh*
>>> >
>>> > *caveat* the drive mappings didn't work, nor the printing!
>>> >
>>> > *further caveat* Apologies in advance to Joe's mom,
>>> >
>>> > I'm sure she's a nice lady who makes great gumbo!
>>> >
>>> > It's a different landscape these days but how are you doing?
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Pass the CCIE in six weeks, Guaranteed!
>>> > http://www.certscience.com/CCIE
>>> >
>>____________________________________________________________________
>>> > ___ Subscription information may be found at:
>>> > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Pass the CCIE in six weeks, Guaranteed!
>>> > http://www.certscience.com/CCIE
>>> >
>>____________________________________________________________________
>>> > ___ Subscription information may be found at:
>>> > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> Pass the CCIE in six weeks, Guaranteed!
>>> http://www.certscience.com/CCIE
>>>
>>______________________________________________________________________
>>> _ Subscription information may be found at:
>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>
>>
>>Pass the CCIE in six weeks, Guaranteed!
>>http://www.certscience.com/CCIE
>>______________________________________________________________________
_
>>Subscription information may be found at:
>>http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>
>
> Pass the CCIE in six weeks, Guaranteed!
> http://www.certscience.com/CCIE
>
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