From: Paul Cosgrove (paul.cosgrove@heanet.ie)
Date: Sun Apr 13 2008 - 20:32:08 ART
Hi Joe,
Other people have different family lives, jobs, finance, and commitments
to yourself. Not everyone who studies for the CCIE has the benefit of
working with routers on a daily basis. Not everyone gains the same
benefit from any particular teaching method. Many people study whilst
rearing children whose size and age are inversely proportional to their
decibel output.
Individuals bring their own experiences with them and some will
initially understand, or misunderstand things which others cannot. Some
candidates may have problems with your labs, but you designed them with
the knowledge you already had, so you completely understand them. How
do you know what you don't know: what would happen if some of those
people spent time designing labs for you? Everyone has strengths and
weaknesses.
You are right that you cannot guarantee someone is disciplined enough to
come back to it if they fail the lab. So does D@R6y display commendable
discipline with his dedication to his studies, or does he show a lack of
discipline having attended a bootcamp where he worked 12+ hour days for
a week?
Some people buy class on demand sessions and dedicate time when they can
to viewing them. Others dedicate a week and attend a bootcamp where
they can ask questions about topics they want to discuss. In a bootcamp,
misunderstandings can be clarified, different experiences can be shared,
real issues discussed. Bootcamps are an interactive source of
information, which complement the various other sources.
Personally I'm interested to hear about other peoples experiences
including your own, this includes if there are resources or training
(including bootcamps) which they find useful, or think are a complete
waste of time. You have included some of your opinions about bootcamps,
why not welcome those of others?
Paul.
Joseph Brunner wrote:
> I'm not going to trash the bootcamps...
>
> But I will say this about them... the money is better spent on actual lab
> attempts...
>
> D@R6Y has been to ALL the bootcamps in the world (from what I can tell) and
> sorry D@R6Y, he STILL hasn't passed yet...
>
> In regards to Cert Science, you can't make a person into CCIE in 6 weeks.
> You can't guarantee someone is smart enough to pass the lab, or disciplined
> enough to come back to it if they fail the lab.
>
> I am a CCNP instructor. I make my own workbooks. Many people who have passed
> the written and are already CCNP's are unable to do them. Why? One guy said
> he was just going for the lab, and now is taking my CCNP class in 2 weeks.
>
> A person has to commit to being great. The type of person who will need a
> bootcamp to get them motivated to approach greatness, is not same type of
> person who has such a strong self-starter they can just stay at home, save
> the money and show the discipline to be great on their own.
>
> I started teaching to find excellent people for my Consulting firm. Then I
> realized, wait, I am what I am because I didn't go to bootcamps. I taught my
> self discipline while banging away at the CLI for thousands of hours and
> making notes the last 8 years. I have taught over 100+ people Cisco since
> 05/2007. Only 2 people (SO FAR) exhibit the patience and discipline to do
> what I do (show up and take control of a network, document it, fix it,
> explain what you are doing). So the Jury is still out on whether training is
> worth the time of the INSTRUCTOR.
>
> So let's forget about bootcamps on this board. Let's just talk about the
> technology.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> Joshua
> Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 4:14 PM
> To: 'Ramy Sisy'; 'Cisco certification'
> Subject: ********
>
> Searching for a good CCIE boot camp is no different
> than searching for a good university or advanced degree
> program to which to attend. Many schools just simply
> have stronger programs and have a much better
> reputation than most others. Bottom line is that the
> student is just going to have to do their homework to
> figure out which to attend. Depending on the school of
> choice, the student may have to do more work at one
> school versus another. And like most schools, there
> are professors that very highly respected and maybe
> even become a trusted mentor for many students. Then,
> there are the "other" professors who just plain suck
> and you are left with questioning just how in the hell
> that person made it through the vetting process.
> Chances are, it is because of that one professor that
> will slow your progress. CCIE boot camp/schools and
> instructors are no different. Some are just damn
> awesome, while others will essentially drive a stake
> into the ground through your foot.
>
> $Nar--bik" was banned because former students were
> commenting about the high quality of his classes.
> But, from what I have seen on GS, certainly not any
> more than formers students who have attended competing
> boot camps. What made $Dar**by's situation different
> was that he posted daily reports while attending
> *Nar-B-iks class. He was giving a daily account of
> **Narb-ik's professionalism, abilities as an
> instructor, the quality of his classroom instruction,
> curriculum and what topics we covered. This was from a
> student's point of view. Grant it, *Darby probably
> over did it. *Dar*by knew that he was probably
> stepping over the line. But, why ban *&Narb-ik?
>
> I was in *Narb--iks class, alongside *Da---rby, when
> *Dar*by was banned by P*aul B@orghese. There is one
> thing *Dar*by was right about. When it comes to high
> quality hardcore boot camps, *^Nar--bik's class is a
> real threat to &^Cert-Scie_nce and several other
> companies. I know. I attended the Cer-t-sci-ence boot
> camp. Unless you want to be ripped off $8K+, I
> wouldn't recommend the program, period. I have also
> attended INX and Netmasterclass. *Nar*bi-k, INX and
> NetMasterClass are worth every penny. I have never
> attended Scott Morris' class, but I have met the man
> and he is clearly a hardcore CCIE much like N*ar*bik,
> INX, and Netmasterclass. You cannot go wrong with any
> of these guys, for the exception of one.
>
> Nonetheless, I have not seen *Nar--bik push his class,
> like some others have. I have never seen him attach
> huge or sometimes obnoxious signature blocks like some
> others. I have not seen *Narbi--k advertise his class
> in any way, other than to inform someone to email him
> directly, if they had questions about his class. So,
> why ban *Narb--ik??? He has contributed to so many
> passing their labs by answering so many questions that
> others could not do on their own. Just as Scott, Brian
> Dennis, Brian McGahan, Bruce Caslow, Bob Sinclair and
> several others have done.
>
> *Narb-ik$ had nothing but good things to say about
> Scott Morris, Internetwork-experts, and Netmaster's.
> He just never had anything to say about C*ert-Sc*ience.
> You know; if you don't have anything good to
> say..........??? Hmmmmm.... CertScience...... Paul
> Borghese...... Ban &Narb**ik....... Has the the
> Patriot Act has come to GS....??? I know, I know. That
> was a bit much. But still, it does beg for questions
> when looking at the motivation for banning *Narb*ik.
> Why not ban all instructors from training companies, if
> there are so many complaints about this stuff?
>
> Complaints?? The IPExpert, Netmasterclass and
> Internetwork Experts have nothing to worry about.
> Their reputation precedes them. If others are
> threatened by it, then they need to step up the quality
> of their CCIE boot camp learning experience, as well as
> their level of professionalism. Or better yet, go
> beyond the norm. The point of competition is to push
> the limits, find better ways and hopefully, increase
> the quality of just about anything, including the
> learning experience. If a CCIE hopeful asks for
> feedback about any persons experience in reference to
> any one of the CCIE boot camps, the GS door is going to
> open. And it will swing both ways. Former students
> are going to chime in. It is the nature of the beast
> on this forum.
>
> It seems to me that if you want to create a forum for
> pure CCIE studies, without this adolescent bickering
> crap, then simply dis-allow any form of advertisement
> or promotion altogether. Including the *CertScience
> signature automatically attached to the bottom of the
> GS emails. If it cannot be stopped, then try to
> control it via a solution. GS is and has been the
> largest CCIE forum in the world. So, why not let it
> pay for itself. Paid advertisements??? Maybe a banner
> or set of links at the bottom of all GS emails. Anyone
> caught advertising or promoting anything beyond the
> banner/links, will be kicked off. Simple as that. If
> it is too difficult to "police" the forum on this
> level, oh well. It is, unfortunately, one of those
> problems to which a solution will need to be found.
> Or..... just deal with the problem. Hey, just shutdown
> GS? Problem solved.
>
> My $.02 worth Wait, now its $.0125.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com
> [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of CCIE
> Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2008 10:15 AM
> To: 'Ramy Sisy'; 'ccie girl'; 'Cisco certification'
> Subject: RE: OT Darby
>
> What do you mean "Nar---bik is not showing since 18
> JAN???
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com
> [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of Ramy Sisy
> Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 9:59 PM
> To: 'ccie girl'; 'Cisco certification'
> Subject: RE: OT Darby
>
> Probably he was filtered after his last post "Nar
>
> bik's Bootcamp Chronicles - Day 1".
>
> Also Nar
>
> bik, he is not showing since 18 Jan?!
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------
> Thanks,
> Ramy Sisy
> CCIE#17321 (Security), CCSI#30417
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/RAMYSISY
>
> CCIE Security Content Manager/ Technical Instructor
> http://www.CCBOOTCAMP.com
> -----------------------------------------------
>
> "Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more
> complex, and more
> violent. It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of
> courage - to move in the
> opposite direction" Albert Einstein
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com
> [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of ccie
> girl
> Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 2:53 PM
> To: Cisco certification
> Subject: OT Darby
>
> ..is it just me or does anyone else miss Mr Weaver's
> input?
>
> I hope he is OK.
>
>
> Pass the CCIE in six weeks, Guaranteed!
> http://www.certscience.com/CCIE
> _______________________________________________________________________
> Subscription information may be found at:
> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>
>
> Pass the CCIE in six weeks, Guaranteed!
> http://www.certscience.com/CCIE
> _______________________________________________________________________
> Subscription information may be found at:
> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
Pass the CCIE in six weeks, Guaranteed!
http://www.certscience.com/CCIE
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.4 : Thu May 01 2008 - 08:25:50 ART