From: Khawar Butt (khawarb@khawarb.com)
Date: Tue Mar 11 2008 - 11:57:42 ARST
Hi Duncan,
Very well said.
Khawar Butt
CCIE#12353 (R/S , Security , SP , Voice)
http://www.khawarb.com
http://www.netmetric-solutions.com
E-mail : khawarb@khawarb.com
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
Duncan Maccubbin
Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 7:10 PM
To: ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: Re: How to Become a CCIE v2
I generally don't follow these for too long. They tend to end up with the
same old arguements. I do believe they have a place here though. Attaining
either a CCIE or a higher education degree requires a lot of time/resources
and people want to be sure they are doing the right thing.
There is a right answer but it is on an individual basis. There is no "one
size fits all" here.
-----Original Message-----
>From: Sean C <upp_and_upp@hotmail.com>
>Sent: Mar 11, 2008 8:30 AM
>To: Duncan Maccubbin <duncan.maccubbin@earthlink.net>,
ccielab@groupstudy.com
>Subject: Re: How to Become a CCIE v2
>
>Or that there is no answer.
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Duncan Maccubbin" <duncan.maccubbin@earthlink.net>
>To: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
>Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 9:23 AM
>Subject: Re: How to Become a CCIE v2
>
>
>> Uhhh...the fact it comes up every two months and lives for a while shows
>> lots of people care.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>>From: "Carl Yost Jr." <yostc@sunpenguin.net>
>>>Sent: Mar 11, 2008 7:23 AM
>>>To: ccielab@groupstudy.com
>>>Subject: Re: How to Become a CCIE v2
>>>
>>>Here we go again.... Wah wah wah...
>>>
>>>These OT posts about this stuff is really doesn't help in the spirit of
>>>the forum. Isn't there an OT list that could be created for this stuff ?
>>>
>>>Seriously every two months you see this break out. CCIE vs degrees vs
>>>..... How can anyone compare a CCIE to a PHD? Seriously let it go, no
>>>one cares.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>nrf wrote:
>>>>> Many managers have no idea how tough the CCIE is. But then again,
>>>>> can you
>>>>> blame them? Lately there seems to be an outpouring of posts on
>>>>> people passing
>>>>> the CCIE in 3, or even 2 months. How many people have completed their
>>>>> Master's degrees in two months? If it was accredited, I'll bet the
>>>>> answer is
>>>>> 0.
>>>>
>>>> Actually, not only do I completely agree with you here, I'll not only
>>>> call you, but also raise you. While managers may not have any idea
>>>> how tough the CCIE is, well, let's be honest guys, how tough is it
>>>> really, relative to other credentials one could earn? Few if any
>>>> people can earn a real (that is, an accredited) master's degree in
>>>> just 2-3 months, and certainly earning a Phd in such a time frame is
>>>> infeasible for all except supra-geniuses, as even Einstein needed over
>>>> a year to be awarded his. Heck, since the MIT PhD was brought up, I
>>>> know quite a few people who have been working on their PhD's at MIT
>>>> for over 6 years full-time who still haven't completed the degree. To
>>>> repeat, that's working on the degree FULL-TIME, which means they don't
>>>> have a job (in other words, earning the degree IS their job).
>>>> Honestly, how many of us would really need 6 years of full-time study
>>>> in order to pass the CCIE? Hence, while I realize that this is a
>>>> discordant position to take, the fact is, the CCIE isn't that weighty
>>>> of an accomplishment, relative to some of those other credentials.
>>>>
>>>> I've said it before, I'll say it again: what severely weakens the
>>>> difficulty of the CCIE is the fact that you can simply take it over
>>>> and over and over again until you finally pass. Sure, it costs money,
>>>> sure it takes time, but nevertheless you can just keep taking the test
>>>> repeatedly until you finally get the particular set of questions that
>>>> you know well. That sort of process has no parallel in those other
>>>> credential processes. For example, take the PhD qualification exams
>>>> (which don't allow you to graduate, but merely allow you to advance to
>>>> candidacy status). Almost all respectable programs have a finite
>>>> limit to the number of times you can fail those exams, usually being
>>>> 2-3 attempts, with some (harsh) programs allowing you only ONE
>>>> attempt. Once you exceed that threshold, that's it: the game is over
>>>> and you're officially and irrevocably expelled from the program.
>>>> Similarly, once you're a candidate who has submitted your thesis, you
>>>> can't just keep failing your oral defense over and over again until
>>>> you finally succeed. After a certain number of defense failures, your
>>>> candidacy will be revoked. But a CCIE "candidate" can repeatedly
>>>> attempt the test with impunity.
>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________________________________
>>>Subscription information may be found at:
>>>http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>
>> _______________________________________________________________________
>> Subscription information may be found at:
>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.4 : Tue Apr 01 2008 - 07:53:53 ART