From: Wink (dwinkworth@wi.rr.com)
Date: Sun Mar 09 2008 - 11:54:11 ARST
HAHAHAHA.
This is so true. Is it me, or is there just no regard at all lately for
networking or network engineers?
Being a CCIE makes you a glorified NOC person it seems, in the eyes of
so many managers.
Sometimes I'm not sure what the point of doing it was.
Derick
CCIE #15672
Joseph Brunner wrote:
>> Passing the elite level and world's toughest certification from Cisco
>> Systems
>>
>
> Would this be the one they are walking away from to create the CCDE, CCMA,
> and CCOT (operating thetan?)
>
> And the same one that lately employers hold in line with the CCNA
>
> "Must be CCIE, or a strong CCNA" (see dice, 2 weeks ago)
>
> Just checking, because before I add my stars to my shoulder bars, I was just
> Asking for feedback...
>
> Joe,
> CCMS (master skeptic)
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> Himawan Nugroho
> Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 12:27 AM
> To: groupstudy; comserv@groupstudy.com
> Subject: How to Become a CCIE v2
>
> Hi everyone,
> I hope I don't just waste everyone's bandwidth.
> I made the new version of "How to Become a CCIE" (v2) and hopefully
> it's useful for CCIE candidates. You may want to check the following
> as well:
>
> How to Become a CCIE v2 @ amazon - with the list of some books I read
> during CCIE SP preparation:
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/richpub/syltguides/fullview/RLUWDJWTD4FN2/
>
> How to Become a CCIE @ amazon - with list of some books I used during
> CCIE Security preparation (the original how-to version, may be
> outdated, written on Feb 2006):
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/richpub/syltguides/fullview/BYNHY05D4X84/
>
> Summary of the journey in passing 3 CCIE labs:
> http://brokenpipes.blogspot.com/2007/09/triple-ccie-history-in-making.html
>
> The very first post I made after passing the last lab:
> http://brokenpipes.blogspot.com/2007/08/triple-ccie.html
>
>
> Regards,
> Himawan Nugroho
>
>
> How to Become a CCIE v2
>
> Passing the elite level and world's toughest certification from Cisco
> Systems, tips from someone who has done it three times
> By Himawan Nugroho, CCIE#8171 (R&S, Security, SP)
> Inevitable -- http://brokenpipes.blogspot.com
>
> I was digging through my own blog archive and found that my first post
> about How to Become a CCIE is quite old and need to get updated. In
> fact, I'm thinking to modify it in such a way so the same principle
> should be applied to any CCIE tracks, and even to any top level
> certification from other vendor. Without any intention to re-invent my
> own writing, I just put the updates and I tried to make it short this
> time. So if you'd like to read more about my experience taking the lab
> 3 times, I suggest you to read the original version and all related
> posts, starting with the summary of my journey.
>
> Btw, in case you haven't noticed I'm trying to learn how to sell by
> using marketing hypes, hence the words "elite level", "world's
> toughest" and "from someone who has done it three times" yeah, right
> :)
>
> 1. You still need to ask yourself "what's the point?"
> It's still a very tough challenge. It's still a long and tiring
> process. You will spend lots of efforts and money to get it. You still
> need to sacrifice your spare time and social life. So you should have
> at least one good reason why you want to do CCIE. And don't try to
> fake the reason. No one can give you the answer and I bet no one other
> than you really cares what it is. But it's important for you because
> this might be the only thing that can keep you going, that can wake
> you up from your laziness, that can make you come out from your
> frustration in the middle of your journey.
>
> Once you know and believe in your reason, then decide which track you
> want to pursuit. Follow your heart, do only the track you like.
> Continue with collecting the information about that specific track:
> read the CCIE blueprint for both written and lab exam. Read Networkers
> slides to get a brief picture about the exam format and sample of the
> question (Yes they have a session for this, I remember I read and
> listened to the presentation conducted by CCIE SP proctors).
>
> 2. Use the mid-level certification
> Now the step for all CCIE tracks are very clear and they all have
> mid-level certification (except CCIE storage). So if you want to take
> CCIE in Routing & Swithing you should learn CCNP. For CCIE Service
> Provider you should start with CCIP. For Voice it's CCVP. And for
> Security it's CCSP (the new Security lab doesn't require extensive
> knowledge of routing & switching anymore, you may check its blueprint
> v2). Remember, using this mid-level certification doesn't mean you
> have to pass it.
>
> If you are one of the guys who wrote me email to say that
> certification is useless, want to take CCIE just to prove how good you
> are, doesn't want to waste time with CCNA, CCNP/IP/SP/VP then it's
> fine. Don't take the exam but you can still utilize the resources to
> plan your study. The base knowledge for CCIE is already covered in the
> mid-level certification. So do the obvious and follow the flow: read
> the books for the mid-level of track you want to pursuit even you
> don't have to take the exam. Passing the mid-level exam is important
> just as a review to ensure you have really understood the material
> covered by the certification. And you may want to get your knowledge
> to some extend to be certified by Cisco that can be considered a
> reward in your journey even you haven't completed it.
>
> 3. A new way to build your home lab
> Practice extensively in the lab is still the key to pass CCIE. But for
> certain tracks, R&S and SP, you can practice CCIE lab without having
> any real equipments. I have built a step-by-step guidance to do this
> with dynamips. Dynamips is a very popular emulator for Cisco IOS and
> now some people have released several front-end interface such as
> dynagen or GNS3 to make it easier to setup and build the topology.
> It's an emulator to provide real router environment that can trick the
> real Cisco IOS so it will boot in normal PC. So it's still need the
> real Cisco IOS software, and please don't ask me to send you this.
>
> Many people still wrote me email asking this question: is it possible
> to pass CCIE only with dynamips? Yes, it is. I have seen some of my
> friends did this. In fact, I did all my practice for CCIE SP only with
> (censored), something similar as dynamips. Censored = internal info to
> Cisco employees heheh. I'm planning to take the top level
> certification from other vendor (guess who :)) using a similar
> emulator only. I want to do it just to utilize my spare time, to prove
> my point here, and obviously for fun.
>
> You may still require to build home lab, or rent it online, for other
> CCIE tracks.
>
> 4. Passing written test still doesn't prove anything
> This is still the same point as my original post. You can read the
> written exam blueprint and compare it with the lab. Take the written
> test and feel its coverage. Then setup your lab after that, start
> doing the workbook, and feel the difference. For some tracks, studying
> for written test doesn't add any value for the lab preparation.
>
> For me, I don't count the step to pass written test as part of my
> checklist to pass the lab. After you pass written exam, you are
> eligible to register for the lab. And that's what it's all about.
> Passing written test doesn't mean you are half-CCIE. It doesn't mean
> you are 20% or even 10% ready to take the lab. I count it as Step 0.
> >From the written test you should start practicing in the lab and build
> the percentage of your progress. Use the lab blueprint as your
> guidance. Once you cover 100% in the list then you may be ready for
> your first attempt. Well, this is not always the case. I covered only
> 80% and passed in my first attempt. But don't count on my experience!
>
> So my point here is: never count passing written test as part of your
> CCIE lab preparation. Just look at it as administrative step required
> to register for the lab.
>
> 5. Read, read and read, then practice
> I won't list all the books that I read to prepare for all my CCIE
> labs. They are just so many of them! And sometime you just need to
> read few chapters from one book. The must-read book list is different
> for every track and may not updated. But you can start by checking on
> the book list from CCIE website. If you think it's still too much,
> then I suggest you to again use the Lab Exam Blueprint as your
> guidance. Read about one scope of technology at a time. Read from CCO,
> since this is Cisco certification so it always makes sense to check
> the configuration guide and technical tips from their website.
> Material from Networkers (slides with sound) is still a good resource,
> and I think you can get this from Networkers Online.
>
> Google is always our best friend. And you may be interested to
> subscribe for online books library such as Safari Books online. Check
> the list of their books first before you pay! The benefit of reading
> from a website like Safari is they provide a google-seach to find
> specific topic you want to read from several books.
>
> 6. Fast and Furious may not the trend anymore
> Indeed you still need the speed in typing. I guess it will be
> difficult to pass CCIE if you still use only two fingers to type and
> always look at your keyboard when you do so. There is just not enough
> time! But it was a different experience when I did my R&S and Security
> with my SP lab. In the first two, there are many independent
> technology that I can skip to come back later on if I don't know the
> answer. So my strategy at that time was to answer all questions that I
> know the obvious answers first. Then I went back to answer some of the
> questions that I'm not too sure about it. And the rest of the time was
> to answer all questions that I have no clue, and I used to depend on
> Documentation CD or restricted CCO documentation websites to find the
> answers. So normally I tried to complete 70-80% of the lab before
> lunch, since I know I need to spend many hours to read from
> documentation CD.
>
> But in SP, it was a different story. Many topics are connected to
> another topics, many topics are built based on another topics as
> underlying protocol, and all decision we make to answer one topic may
> affect our answer for the topic we build on top of it. So the strategy
> that works for me at that time was "do it once, and do it right". I
> needed to make sure I had answered the question correctly before I
> moved to the next question (unless it's independent feature that I can
> skip). Even I can type IOS command quite fast but at that time I had
> only 1 hour left to re-check my work. And documentation CD is not our
> best friend anymore in SP lab. There is no time to read it and
> actually to be able to build a working topology all topics covered in
> the lab must be understood thoroughly, unless it's related to features
> or enhancements.
>
> 7. Join the community
> There is no doubt about this. Learn from others' experience and share
> your own experience. Check the archive for all previous discussions.
> Answer the questions in the forum in order to get the answers for your
> questions to the forum. Build a healthy discussion forum! Respect each
> other and always think those people who are willing to answer are not
> getting paid for that so don't be rude and push to get answers (unless
> you join a commercial forum or the forum that is created by vendor to
> answer your questions related to the product/workbook you purchase
> from them).
>
> Same as what I wrote in my original post, it would be good if you can
> build a small discussion forum in your area that can meet offline.
> It's always better to have someone to share your frustration or
> listening for someone's experience to boost the spirit while having
> coffee together. CCIE is a one-man-journey type of experience but as I
> said in the original post, I was happy just to know there were others
> out there who might be doing the same thing and facing the same
> challenges. You are not the only one, even you are alone who must open
> the door, Neo.
>
> 8. Asking the right question is an art
> Try to ask some silly questions or obvious questions that any CCIE lab
> proctors are not allowed to answer are not recommended. They are there
> in the lab to clarify the question, and sometime they can provide you
> hints to the answer. So use this chance wisely because you don't want
> the proctors mark your face in his brain as someone who asks him the
> answer for CCIE lab.
>
> More into that, I think it's really good to build a culture on how to
> ask a question effectively. I received many emails asked me how to
> become a CCIE even now still working on CCNA? That's easy, pass your
> CCNA first! Or I have seen some people throw one line question to the
> forum: how can I configure MPLS VPN? Why don't you spend a little bit
> of your time to read the website, use google, RTFM, try it in your lab
> and when you are really stuck you can send your specific question with
> all required information such as the config and topology.
>
> Learn how to ask effectively.
> We all definitely need this even for the life outside CCIE lab.
>
> 9. Understand the lab question
> I was not born in english-speaking country. And even I have spent 6
> years working overseas, with English as daily business language, it
> was still difficult for me to understand some of the lab question. For
> my CCIE SP lab all the questions were straight forward. I went to the
> proctor only because I found some vague words and since I know how to
> ask I could even get the hints after I clarified the words with the
> proctor. So they are there in the lab to help you to clarify the
> questions. But that's all.
>
> And I found out when some lab questions are so confusing, it's better
> to sit back and look at the topology as a whole and a unit. So try to
> understand what we are trying to build in the lab from helicopter
> view, not from the device or configuration perspective. For example,
> when I did my SP lab I looked at the drawing, read the questions,
> tried to understand what kind of network I have to build with all
> traffic flow and policy then it became easier for me when I worked on
> each question to put the configuration.
>
> 10. Skeptical attitude might the one you need the most
> Trust no one, trust no solution. Don't trust the configuration guide
> in Cisco website. Don't believe what people say or write in the forum.
> Don't trust the configuration and solution written in Ciscopress
> books. Don't even trust the solution from the vendor for those CCIE
> workbooks that you must pay for it!
>
> I'm not saying that all those resources are bad and should not be
> trusted. What I'm trying to say here is you should not trust any
> solution unless you prove it in your lab. It may work in the book but
> not in your case because you use different IOS. You may read it and
> think you have already understood the technology but then when it
> doesn't work in the lab only you realize there is a missing part that
> you need to discover. And some people either make a typo in their
> solution or answer it with one way because of some consideration that
> you may not able to see.
>
> So never stop asking: Why? How come it's possible? Why the solution
> use that way? What if I answer it with this way? How to prove the
> concept really works? What if I add this on top of that? How to answer
> this question if I modify or add with that requirement? And so on.
>
> 11. CCIE is nothing but a mind game
> You still need to read lots of books. You still need to practice
> extensively. You still need to make the strategy and plan your study
> accordingly. But on top of that, you really need the right mindset and
> attitude to pass. Other than being skeptical and consistently test the
> solution in the lab, you must be positive most of the time. You should
> believe you can achieve your target if you really spend efforts in
> doing so. Avoid unnecessary discussion and long debate about why you
> need to become a CCIE (you should do that in Step 1 above). Leave your
> discussion group if they keep telling you it's very difficult to pass
> CCIE and you won't be able to make it because you don't have what it
> takes to pass. Or they say you don't have same opportunity as the
> others who can pass. Everyone has the same chance to pass. During my
> journey I have proved that it's not a matter of time, nor it's a
> matter of support from the company or how many resources you have.
> It's all about the mindset.
>
> And other than being positive, you should develop ability to be
> adaptable as well, to make you ready for any surprises in the lab. You
> should know how to analyze a problem and use the right approach to
> solve it. This is required to ensure you can understand the
> requirements in the lab and choose the right method to answer. You
> need to be able to make decision and handle situation under pressure
> within limited amount of time. And you don't risk your life in taking
> this CCIE anyway! So relax, try your best to be prepared, extremely
> prepared, but in the end if you make mistakes and fail, you lose
> nothing but the cost to take the lab. On the other side you will
> definitely learn something from your failure and gain more than what
> you lose.
>
> So again, Everyone has the same chance to pass.
> If someone tells you the otherwise, ask him to talk to me ;)
>
> 12. Enjoy every moment of it
> What's the point to do something if you don't enjoy it? Again, this is
> the reason why Step 1 is very crucial. It's very important to follow
> your heart. Because pursuing CCIE requires you to be focus and
> consistent, so it will be difficult if you don't know why you want to
> do this in the first place. You must sacrifice your spare time and
> social life so it's really important for those around who care to you
> to be part of the game. Discuss your plan with them and try to still
> make some contact with other human beings when you are not geeking out
> in the lab.
>
> I remember when I did my security I still spent some time with my
> family to go to the beach, even my mind was in
> Firewall-ACL-to-allow-BGP-traffic-with-NAT and
> IDS-fine-tuning-to-send-alert-only-after-certain-hits. I sacrificed my
> sleep to gain extra time to study. I sacrificed my lunch. I sacrificed
> my time that I normally used to chit chat with colleagues. But I still
> had fun doing my lab since at the same time I played the Matrix or the
> Simpsons next to my hyperterminal. And not to mention all those Linkin
> Park songs that I used to play over and over continuously.
>
> And when you are preparing for CCIE, be in the moment. Make a 6-months
> study plan but do one thing at the time. If you haven't passed the
> written then do this as Step 0. If you haven't setup the lab then
> start reading documentation about the emulator or search for the
> hardware on ebay. If you must deal with busy schedule at work, try to
> have fun by read CCIE material in between your busy time or steal some
> time by locking yourself inside the toilet and read in there (I'm
> still doing this until now!). Feel every aspect of the journey. Be
> grateful when you have even a very short time to make progress in your
> study. And always try to enjoy every moment of it.
>
>
> Okay, let's say you pass. You may ask: now what?
> Don't ask me. Ask yourself.
>
> CCIE is just the beginning of a bigger journey. There are several
> other CCIE tracks to chase or other exciting things to do in life such
> as working in large scale project where you have to use all your
> technical skills along with your ability to handle much complex
> situation. But frankly speaking, until now I still haven't found
> another journey that could offer such tense atmosphere, learning
> experience, wide coverage of technology within short time, and fun all
> together outside CCIE. All the time was just for me and my lab.
>
> As I wrote in my own post after I passed my 3rd lab:
> CCIE was the only time when the world makes sense.
>
> Have fun, everyone.
>
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