From: Joseph Brunner (joe@affirmedsystems.com)
Date: Sat Mar 01 2008 - 22:45:39 ARST
My only concern (for anyone with a job) is the quickly dropping wage, and
this includes CCIE's. And I don't just mean lower salary, I also mean
crimped purchasing power. Least we forget gas for the drivers of this HUGE
country we live in, health insurance costs for families etc. god knows what
else is rising.
It's sad that anyone as valuable as a network expert would have to shill
their number to make some much needed extra bucks. After all, am I right
Darth Router, you're not as stupid as me and wouldn't go spend that $50k a
year on a platinum AP Royal Oak Chrono? Right?
Its clear people are looking at other streams of income with this cert
BECAUSE they HAVE to. As you guys all know if you are full-timers its hard
to make extra $$$ if/when your expenses increase. you may have a baby, wife
stops working, car breaks down- BUT YOUR NEXT REVIEW is 7 months away. How
can you get a raise NOW that you desperately need?
1. look for other work
2. tell your boss you have some tough choices to make
3. work part-time on nights and weekends (consulting, teaching,
tutoring, etc)
I am big believer in "when the going gets tough, the tough get going". Well,
if your number is not tied to a partner in this silly little system that
rewards Partners who hire CCIE's with a "gold" status (like when American
Express rewards their big spenders with CHARGING THEM $5000 a YEAR EXTRA for
a METAL BLACK AMEX CARD).
Come on guys we are very smart, talented, creative and confident. Do we need
this union mentality protectionist bullsh*t? Don't tell me, next we have
CCIE's staff the Javitz convention center and charge $600 to carry a few
boxes from the curb to your convention center display (yes this happens!!!)
because we're too stupid to find work otherwise.
Joe
CCIE Local 501
American Federation of IT Laborers
_____
From: darth router [mailto:darklordrouter@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 6:18 PM
To: Greg Wendel
Cc: Scott Vermillion; Joseph Brunner; Tony Schaffran (GS); Robert Hosford;
sheherezada@gmail.com; tvarriale@flamboyaninc.com; Cisco certification
Subject: Re: Unassigned CCIE query.
"If a channel partner hires a CCIE away from another Cisco Certified or
Specialized Partner, Cisco will not count this individual toward the
certification or specialization for the hiring channel partner for 12-months
from the date of hire.
This would make it tough for a CCIE to rent themselves to more than one
partner over the course of a 12-month period.
Near as we can tell, the Rent-a-Cert idea is based on the concept that a
CCIE could simply loan his/her certification number to a channel partner,
but given that Cisco has a complete employment history of all CCIEs we would
discover during the audit process that a CCIE was a registered employee for
two companies thus making it impossible for them to qualify as a full-time
contractor or employee. "
This is one of the issues. If your a consultant, you wouldn't rent/contract
your CCIE to more than one company anyway, thus there is no violation.
"What I personally think about the Rent A Cert idea:1. Cisco Cert holders
have the right to market themselves and create job opportunities in pretty
much whatever manner they wish. However, the Rent A Cert idea is penny wise
and dollar foolish for the cert holder, although it may appear at first to
be a great way to earn extra monthly cash from your cert"
Does he say anywhere in that paragraph that this is a violation of
partnership reqs? Negative. The devaluation of the cert is a completely
different argument. My point is, you are allowed and can do this. If cisco
legally defines what a "full time" time contract means, that could put a lot
of partners in trouble. Scott, your missing my point. It's not a violation
unless they say it is. I could also work as a part time employee directly to
the company, working 3-4 hours a week (not a contractor) and help them get
their partnership.
On 3/1/08, Greg Wendel <gwendel@gmail.com> wrote:
Scott,
Remember, if the glove fits you must acquit =).
On Sat, Mar 1, 2008 at 5:31 PM, Scott Vermillion <scott_ccie_list@it-ag.com>
wrote:
(The following e-mail should be deleted by Tony Varriale and any who agree
that this discussion is a waste of precious BW...)
Darth,
I took the time to read this article. From the Cisco PR Manager of
Corporate Communications:
"...we see a couple of issues with the Rent-a-Cert idea..."
"According to our Channel Partner Program requirements, partners can employ
*full-time* contractor employees..."
"As part of our annual partner audit we validate the employment contracts
for the required CCIEs."
"This requirement to remain compliant between annual audits makes
Rent-a-Cert a short-term fix or expensive long-term proposition."
From the author of the friggin article himself:
"...the Rent A Cert idea is penny wise and dollar *foolish for the cert
holder*, although it may appear at first to be a great way to earn extra
monthly cash from your cert.
Why?
Because it will drive down the salaries of all Cisco cert holders once Cisco
partners get into the habit of "cheaply renting" Cisco certs."
"Initially the Rent A Cert idea will appear advantageous for Cisco partners
renting CCIEs on the "cheap".
But where is that partner's value proposition?"
???????
Darth, I cannot imagine why you posted this article in your own defense - it
totally discredits the concept in every way possible! You may as well have
introduced as evidence the missing murder weapon at your own trial.
???????
-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
darth router
Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 11:03 AM
To: Joseph Brunner
Cc: Tony Schaffran (GS); Robert Hosford; sheherezada@gmail.com;
tvarriale@flamboyaninc.com; Cisco certification
Subject: Re: Unassigned CCIE query.
It's not against the rules to contract out to a partner and for them to use
your CCIE. You guys ought to read that article. Honestly, all this talk
about devaluing the cert is nonsense. Cisco has ultimate control of what
devalues the cert, not us. They are managing to do that by their own greedy
devices. My employer uses my IE (Yep, I work there full time) to get into
jobs. That does not mean I do the work. Isn't that unethical? Nope, it's
just another day of business in the partner world.
DR
On 3/1/08, Joseph Brunner <joe@affirmedsystems.com> wrote:
>
> As a side note:
>
> Is there any end user company that will "only buy from a gold partner"?
>
> I think most of the companies I know want far far more than 38% off
> list...
>
> (they want 50%+ off list) and for that we go to networkhardware.com
>
> When you are buy two of everything and allowing NO SINGLE POINT OF FAILURE
> (all my designs) what difference does "new but used" make?
>
> I think Cisco's partner model needs adjusting... if the only value gold
> partners bring is the discount how long will that last?
>
> Most of the support I see being done by tac - customer's don't want gold
> partners billing $200+ per hour to configure a few vlans anyway...
>
> They just get those guys they hired with "CCNA or CCIE required ads" on
> dice
> to open a support call.
>
> LOL
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> Tony
> Schaffran (GS)
>
> Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 10:39 AM
> To: 'Robert Hosford'; sheherezada@gmail.com
> Cc: tvarriale@flamboyaninc.com; 'Cisco certification'
> Subject: RE: Unassigned CCIE query.
>
> That is an entirely different scenario.
>
> The umbrella company itself is employing the resources regardless of them
> being spread across the 26 different divisions. If they have a customer
> that has come to them because of their gold status, that umbrella company
> has those 5 CCIE's on hand to provide the service the customer expects
> from
> a gold partner if needed.
>
> That is actually how the company I work for operates. We have offices all
> over the United States and employ over one hundres CCIE's. Most of our
> reigons could not support Gold status on their own, but if they need a
> CCIE
> resource for a customer, they can pull that resource from another region.
> This is smart business.
>
> Now consider a customer has gone to a company because of their gold status
> and that gold partner has just rented CCIE numbers and does not have the
> resources available. The customer would possible not get the service they
> expected, the gold partner status would lose its value and eventually, the
> CCIE would no longer be needed.
>
> Look at the big picture. Just because renting CCIE numbers happens and is
> a
> common practice in some areas, does not make it right. In the long run,
> it
> will only hurt us.
>
> I think we have said enough on this topic. If you still think there is no
> problem with renting your CCIE number, then there is nothing stopping you.
> That is just the kind of person you are.
>
> Good luck with your future.
>
>
>
> Tony Schaffran
> Network Analyst
> CCIE #11071
> CCNP, CCNA, CCDA,
> NNCDS, NNCSS, CNE, MCSE
>
> www.cconlinelabs.com
> Your #1 choice for online Cisco rack rentals.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert Hosford [mailto:rhosford@certifiednets.com]
> Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 5:27 AM
> To: sheherezada@gmail.com; Tony Schaffran (GS)
> Cc: tvarriale@flamboyaninc.com; Cisco certification
> Subject: RE: Unassigned CCIE query.
>
> Tony,
>
> Tell me, does the following scenario hurt your CCIE value? Is it ethical?
>
> A Company has 26 separate divisions that all have different HR
> departments,
> different CEOs, different internal payrolls departments, different state
> business licenses. Yet the umbrella company claims gold status because
> amongst the 26 division there are 5 CCIEs?
>
> I think hurts your CCIE value. I think it is unethical because for Tax
> purposes all 26 divisions are separate. In reality the divisions are 26
> different companies. None of the individual companies can be a silver
> partner on their own. I don't see you complaining about this kind of
> fraud.
> This fraud hurts honest Gold Partners that will hire, train, and retain
> skilled CCIEs.
>
> Robert
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> sheherezada@gmail.com
> Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2008 12:37 PM
> To: Tony Schaffran (GS)
> Cc: tvarriale@flamboyaninc.com; Cisco certification
> Subject: Re: Unassigned CCIE query.
>
> Tony,
>
> I think you are right, but in some countries Cisco itself distorts the
> market. Have you heard of the unique Cisco concept named "country
> grouping"? Say, put together three Eastern European countries and let
> partners claim Gold status for each of them, even if they have zero
> CCIEs in particular country, just because they happen to count up to
> four in the other two altogether.
>
> Mihai
>
> On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 9:41 PM, Tony Schaffran (GS)
> <groupstudy@cconlinelabs.com> wrote:
> > I am speaking to all CCIE's.
> >
> > This practice is simply unethical and serves to only bring down the
> value
> of
> > being a CCIE.
> >
> > If a company can just buy a number at a discount rate, then why would
> any
> > company employ a CCIE at a premium rate?
> >
> > Think about it.
> >
> >
> >
> > Tony Schaffran
> > Network Analyst
> > CCIE #11071
> > CCNP, CCNA, CCDA,
> > NNCDS, NNCSS, CNE, MCSE
> >
> > www.cconlinelabs.com
> > Your #1 choice for online Cisco rack rentals.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> >
> >
> > From: Tony Varriale [mailto:tvarriale@flamboyaninc.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 11:37 AM
> > To: 'Tony Schaffran (GS)'; 'Cisco certification'
> > Subject: RE: Unassigned CCIE query.
> >
> >
> > I'm not sure which "a CCIE" you are speaking to. But, not only does
> Cisco
> > allow it, it happens.
> >
> > If you want something to worry about, check out Mr. Reese and his
> "don't
> pay
> > for licenses but Cisco should support the 3rd party market gear"
> mantra.
> > That has way more wide spread impact on the community and economy.
> >
> > Tony
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> Tony
> > Schaffran (GS)
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 12:58 PM
> > To: 'Tony Varriale'; 'Darren Johnson'; 'Cisco certification'
> > Subject: RE: Unassigned CCIE query.
> >
> > This topic touches on basic ethics and I would hope a CCIE would have a
> > higher standard.
> >
> > Is it right for a company to just buy a CCIE number to get the partner
> > discounts and deceive their clients by claiming to be a gold partner or
> such
> > without really having the resources on hand?
> >
> > To me, this just seems fundamentally wrong.
> >
> >
> > Tony Schaffran
> > Network Analyst
> > CCIE #11071
> > CCNP, CCNA, CCDA,
> > NNCDS, NNCSS, CNE, MCSE
> >
> > www.cconlinelabs.com
> > Your #1 choice for online Cisco rack rentals.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> Tony
> > Varriale
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 10:48 AM
> > To: 'Darren Johnson'; 'Cisco certification'
> > Subject: RE: Unassigned CCIE query.
> >
> > Yes it is. I would recommend not using that service you listed. You
> can
> > easily find someone to take it if you are in a major metro area by
> asking
> > around and possible even from your local Cisco office.
> >
> > Normal rates are $2-3k/month with a 12 month contract.
> >
> > Tony
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> > Darren Johnson
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 11:41 AM
> > To: 'Cisco certification'
> > Subject: Unassigned CCIE query.
> >
> > Hey all. As per my post last week, I passed the lab and now have an
> > unassigned CCIE number (I paid for study and lab myself). I'm now in a
> > position where I'm weighing up my options. Is it possible to 'rent' out
> my
> > CCIE number to a company, whilst still remaining employed by my present
> > employer? I have heard of rentacert.com but people seemed skeptical of
> it.
> >
> > Let me stress, I DO NOT WANT TO VIOLATE ANY CISCO POLICIES and if
> renting
> > out a cert is doing so, I WILL NOT DO IT. However, if it is
> possible/legal
> > and people out there do it, can they kindly explain how it works. I
> want
> to
> > get as much value out of my cert as possible.
> >
> > Thanks for ANY advice
> >
> > Darren
> > #20078
> >
> >
> >
> > ___________________________________________________________
> > Try the all-new Yahoo! Mail. "The New Version is radically easier to
> use"
> > The Wall Street Journal
> > http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html
> >
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