From: Avner Izhar (aizhar@ccbootcamp.com)
Date: Tue Nov 27 2007 - 01:29:17 ART
If I may try to add an angle to the comprehensive discussion abt the voice lab game plan, I'd say that bootcamps are different and people too.
If you are a self educating kind of person, get a workbook and only go for the bootcamp to fine tune your knowledge.
If you prefer to be trained then go for a compressive training, which is more then 5 days, and only then go for the lab.
We (ccbootcamp) see many cases of people signing to an advanced bootcamp without being ready for it, that's why we divide the training to three levels and make a program out of it.
In any case, two tips which might help are:
* The more prepared you are the more you get out of a bootcamp
* Allow at least four full time study weeks between the advanced bootcamp and the lab, so you will have enough time to fix the things you need to.
* Use the retake after you failed the first time and not before, it will be more helpful that way.
HTH,
-------------------------------------------
thanks,
Avner Izhar
CCIE#15999 (Voice), CCVP, CCSI# 31623
Technical Instructor
CCBOOTCAMP - A Cisco Sponsored Organization (SO)
Email: aizhar@ccbootcamp.com
Toll Free: 877-654-2243
Direct: +1-702-968-5100 = Outside the USA
FAX: +1-702-446-8012
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-----Original Message-----
From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of Brian Dennis
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 18:22
To: Scott Voll; Scott Vermillion; Cisco certification
Subject: Re: game plan for CCIE LAB -Voice
Importance: Low
You surely won't be at the bottom of the heap as I've read some of your
posts over on the Cisco-VoIP mailing list ;-)
Brian Dennis, CCIE4 #2210 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/SP)
bdennis@internetworkexpert.com
Internetwork Expert, Inc.
http://www.InternetworkExpert.com
Toll Free: 877-224-8987
Direct: 775-745-6404 (Outside the US and Canada)
>----- Original Message -----
Subject: Re: game plan for CCIE LAB -Voice
Date: Mon, November 26, 2007 15:03
From: "Scott Voll" <svoll.voip@gmail.com>
> I'm hoping I'm not a the bottom of the heap. I installed and daily
> manage my own deployment of CM / Unity / IPCCx / berbee / xmedius /
> etc. I have a fairly good understanding of those products. now my
> weak points are going to be Unity express, CME, gatekeeper type stuff.
> the things I don't deal with or deal with on a regular basis.
>
> I also help my school districts with there deployments so I feel like
> I'm not going to be asking a lot about how this or that works.
>
> I'm sure that lab books would be a good way to star with rack time as
> I don't have enough to make up a good testing rack.
>
> But thanks to all for the input.
>
> I think my play is going to be practice the lab books and then a month
> or so before the test take the boot camp.
>
> Thanks
>
> Scott (newbie) (not .5.... not 1 or 2..... and certianly not 4)
>
> On Nov 26, 2007 2:42 PM, Brian Dennis <bdennis@internetworkexpert.com>
wrote:
> > We give students the Class-on-Demand version of the bootcamp free of
> > charge prior to attending the live class (online or onsite) so that
> > they can go through it at their own pace before coming to class. By
> > watching the CoD prior to attending it works out really well for the
> > student because they come in preloaded with questions ;-). In 5 days
> > there is just so much to cover and getting that head start really helps
> > ensure you get as much as possible out of those 5 days. We also allow
> > reseats on the live onsite and live online versions no matter which
> > version you attended first and we've never turned away anyone asking
> > for a reseat.
> >
> > With our 12 day bootcamps we throw in the self-paced E2E free of charge
> > just so everyone is up to speed prior to attending. Personally I don't
> > want anyone coming to a 12 day class that isn't ready and is why we
> > throw in $3000 worth of material free of charge. Students who haven't
> > at least watched the IEATC CoD and done 3 or 4 full-scale workbook labs
> > are advised to push their bootcamp dates back.
> >
> > As far as the original question goes sometimes being exposed to
> > everything too early isn't always as helpful as it may seem. It's
> > important that someone has a solid foundation at a CCIE level prior to
> > attending the "bootcamp". This is also the whole reason we offer the
> > Advanced Technologies CoDs so that people don't go to a bootcamp
> > unprepared. A bootcamp should be attended with you feel you are 80-90%
> > of the way there and want to have a really good shot at passing but not
> > when you are basically just starting your preparation.
> >
> > If someone insists on planning to take a bootcamp twice before attending
> > the real lab this is what I would recommend. Get a guarantee from the
> > training company in writing before purchasing the class that you can get
> > the seats on the class dates you want. Most guarantees have fine print
> > so don't wait to find out about it when you are 60 days from your lab
> > date and they don't have any "reseats" available. Then during the first
> > class just sit in the back and listen to the instructor while working on
> > the lab material. Because you are a little behind you may need the
> > extra lab time during the lectures to keep up. Questions to ask should
> > related to how to verify or troubleshoot but not "can you explain how X
> > or Y works?". Then before attending the class for the second time lab
> > up all of the scenarios again to help improve your speed and load up on
> > additional questions for when you get in class. Then during your second
> > class sit right up on the front row and start firing out this good
> > quality questions like a machine gun ;-) Spend the extra time you have
> > during the labs since you should be able to do them quicker than the
> > alloted time discussing topics with instructor. If you did this I would
> > say you got your money's worth for sure ;-)
> >
> > Lastly some training companies have resellers and you can sometimes get
> > a better deal by going through the reseller or playing the reseller
> > against the primary training company ;-) We've seen this happen a
> > couple times.
> >
> >
> > HTH,
> >
> > Brian Dennis, CCIE4 #2210 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/SP)
> > bdennis@internetworkexpert.com
> >
> > Internetwork Expert, Inc.
> > http://www.InternetworkExpert.com
> > Toll Free: 877-224-8987
> > Direct: 775-745-6404 (Outside the US and Canada)
> >
> >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > Subject: RE: game plan for CCIE LAB -Voice
> >
> > Date: Mon, November 26, 2007 13:01
> > From: "Scott Vermillion" <scott_ccie_list@it-ag.com>
> >
> > > Well, that's two professional instructors who have come out in favor of
> > > going early and going often! So I think it's official that the
other other
> > > Scott's approach is a wise one.
> > >
> > > Question: Not having been through a bootcamp yet, are they
structured such
> > > that someone new to lab prep would not be able to drag down those
who are
> > > days or weeks away from sitting the lab? I'm guessing so since you
guys
> > who
> > > teach are in favor of this, which is a bit of a surprise to me,
honestly...
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > > Scott
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Scott Morris [mailto:smorris@ipexpert.com]
> > > Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 1:55 PM
> > > To: 'Scott Vermillion'; 'Scott Voll'; 'Cisco certification'
> > > Subject: RE: game plan for CCIE LAB -Voice
> > >
> > > An interesting view, but look at it a different way....
> > >
> > > Some companies (at least IPexpert) has a resit policy. Not that I
advocate
> > > using that, but IF circumstances dictate...
> > >
> > > Take a bootcamp to absorb information AND to get a week (or two?)
away from
> > > the office/normal work in order to concentrate on your studies.
Take the
> > > lab when its coming up. If you still happen to not pass it, retake the
> > > bootcamp. You'll gain more from it the second time around anyway,
and have
> > > a better perspective for which things you need more help on.
> > >
> > > A lot depends on how much time your company is willing to give in the
> > > long-run.
> > >
> > > HTH,
> > >
> > >
> > > Scott Morris, CCIE4 (R&amp;S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service Provider)
#4713,
> >
> > JNCIE-M
> > > #153, JNCIS-ER, CISSP, et al.
> > > CCSI/JNCI-M/JNCI-ER
> > > VP - Technical Training - IPexpert, Inc.
> > > IPexpert Sr. Technical Instructor
> > >
> > > A Cisco Learning Partner - We Accept Learning Credits!
> > >
> > > smorris@ipexpert.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Telephone: +1.810.326.1444
> > > Fax: +1.810.454.0130
> > > http://www.ipexpert.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> > > Scott Vermillion
> > > Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 2:38 PM
> > > To: 'Scott Voll'; 'Cisco certification'
> > > Subject: RE: game plan for CCIE LAB -Voice
> > >
> > > Back July or August, I scheduled my lab for Feb '08. At the time, I
> > thought
> > > it was a looooong way out. Now I feel like that date is coming at me
> > like a
> > > freight train!
> > >
> > > I wouldn't personally waste valuable study time sitting through a
bootcamp
> > > unless I could really absorb what was being churned out. So if you're
> > > pretty strong across the board, go for it. But otherwise don't
waste that
> > > week or two. Just get started and hope for one shot at the bootcamp
and
> > > likewise one shot at the lab!
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Scott
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> > > Scott Voll
> > > Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 12:02 PM
> > > To: Cisco certification
> > > Subject: game plan for CCIE LAB -Voice
> > >
> > > OK--
> > >
> > > I got my Lab test scheduled for May 30, 2008 (holy cow that's a long
ways
> > > out).
> > >
> > > I'm looking at taking the IPExpert bootcamp and they also offer a
guarantee
> > > that if you don't pass you can retake OR take it again before the test.
> > I'm
> > > thinking about taking the bootcamp now.......
> > > study, study, study, then take the bootcamp again before the test.
> > > Any thoughts?
> > >
> > > Scott
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________________________________
> > > Subscription information may be found at:
> > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________________________________
> > > Subscription information may be found at:
> > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________________________________
> > > Subscription information may be found at:
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>
> _______________________________________________________________________
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